Multifunction Lens, trim / cowl flap indicator

[Marc_B]

My multifunction lens (PN:  880089-003, #4 in parts sheet below I think) is peeling pretty bad and I reached out to LASAR and they said Mooney didn't have a vendor who could make those right now.  Is there any other place to source these?  I've thought about cutting away the peeling parts but I think that would probably look even worse!

Thanks!

[carusoam]

Is that for the LED trim indicators?

Those things were in short supply for a while… then things improved momentarily…

Might be a call to every MSC you can find…

Best regards,

-a-

[Marc_B]

Thanks for the suggestion @carusoam, unfortunately no dice.  Are these only available from Mooney? Any other places that make them?

marc. 

[PT20J]

Do you have a picture?

[LANCECASPER]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:04 PM, Marc_B said:

My multifunction lens (PN:  880089-003, #4 in parts sheet below I think) is peeling pretty bad and I reached out to LASAR and they said Mooney didn't have a vendor who could make those right now.  Is there any other place to source these?  I've thought about cutting away the peeling parts but I think that would probably look even worse!

Thanks!

For the lenses for your Encore I would see if Matt at engravers.net (https://www.engravers.net/acproducts.html) could make them for you. You might have to send him one of your old ones to duplicate. They do thicker lenses for older radios, but I bet they could come up with something that looks pretty good. 

[carusoam]

13 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

Thanks for the suggestion @carusoam, unfortunately no dice.  Are these only available from Mooney? Any other places that make them?

marc. 

Stacy was our guy in the factory that had answers about how to get things, or where they were in the process….

Stacy was around for a few ownership changes over the decades and has moved to another aviation business not too far away….

 

The next person to contact is Dan at Lasar… Dan has the most knowledge of any part in Mooney’s history… including how to get some Mooney parts OH’d…

Next on the list is DMax… DMax is the guru of all things Mooney maintenance… and has been known to OH a few electrical Mooney parts…

 

Lance has a really interesting suggestion… I think the part in question is a multi layered piece of plastic that delaminates quite easily…

So… the part we are searching for isn’t all that unique…

 

Start with sharing a good pic!  

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[Marc_B]

45 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Do you have a picture?

Not the best pic (its a zoom of a panel pic),  I'll have to snap a better one next time I'm at the hangar.  Trim (left) - Wing Flaps (middle) - Elevator trim (top right) - Cowl Flaps (bottom right).  Been progressively worsening since this picture was taken 8-12 months ago.  I initially reached out to Lasar and have an email out to DMax.  I'll reach out to Matt at Engravers.net to see if they've done this before and what information they'd need.  Thanks for the suggestions!

[carusoam]

Marc,

That is a great pic!

The Long Bodies adopted the same type of indicators…

 

It looks like it may be an easy fix for your mechanic…

Take it apart, and exchange the clear plastic film on the top layer…

The O1s use a textured film for a slightly different visual affect…

 

Something that probably comes on rolls in the aviation aisle of HD, aka Aircraft Depot….  
 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Not the best pic (its a zoom of a panel pic),  I'll have to snap a better one next time I'm at the hangar.  Trim (left) - Wing Flaps (middle) - Elevator trim (top right) - Cowl Flaps (bottom right).  Been progressively worsening since this picture was taken 8-12 months ago.  I initially reached out to Lasar and have an email out to DMax.  I'll reach out to Matt at Engravers.net to see if they've done this before and what information they'd need.  Thanks for the suggestions!

That was happening on a Bravo I had and I removed the lenses and then took the top layer of plastic off and cleaned the residue off with Goo Gone (not Goof Off!!) and they looked a lot better. Eventually when I did a new panel I got a set from Mooney through Lasar.

[Marc_B]

Finally took @LANCECASPER advice:
So it’s a thin piece of plastic that has a non-glare covering on it that’s peeling up likely due to the heat coming from the cabin heat vent just below it over the past few decades. The outer layer just peeled up easily and looks better gone. I need to find a suitable protection film that’s matte/non-glare to better protect it. But it has to be thin as the plastic is warped and not exactly flat. So something that would contour to the plastic and not leave bubbles…not sure what the best option is for that. 
Mooney doesn’t have a vendor for this at present. Aircraft Engravers said they couldn’t do it. And I’ve not been able to find a replacement at any other MSC. 
But for now it looks WAY better sans bubbles. 

after

before

[LANCECASPER]

6 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

Finally took @LANCECASPER advice:
So it’s a thin piece of plastic that has a non-glare covering on it that’s peeling up likely due to the heat coming from the cabin heat just below it over the past few decades. The outer layer just peel d up easily and looks better gone. I need to find a suitable protection file that’s matte/non-glare to better protect it. But it has to be thing as the plastic is warped and not exactly flat. So something that would not leave bubbles…not sure what the best option is for that. 
Mooney doesn’t have a vendor for this at present. Aircraft engravers said they couldn’t do it. And I’ve not been able to find a replacement at any other MSC. 
but for now it looks WAY better sans bubbles. 

after

before

I wonder if the thin matte iPad screen protectors (not the matte glass) would work? Either way it looks 10 times better

(https://www.amazon.com/s?k=matte+ipad+screen+protector&crid=37UEMLZGYCAW2&sprefix=matte+ipd%2Caps%2C718&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9)

[PT20J]

Can you just spray it with some matte clear Krylon?

[ArtVandelay]

Look for heat shrink wrap, wrap it and then use a hair dryer or heat gun on low and the bubbles will disappear.

[Marc_B]

26 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Can you just spray it with some matte clear Krylon?

Probably would be the easiest option.

[carusoam]

Wooooowwww….!

you’re kidding me… 
That’s what it looks like back there?

Soooo….

 A simple rectangular sheet of thin optically clear film?

 

Prior art….

There used to be similar clear sheets of plastic used for overhead projectors….?

Hmmmmm…

projectors went out of style in the pre-pandemic era…. Or maybe the pre-great recession era…. Or pre-Y2K…?

Making optically clear film is somewhat challenging… made on very expensive extrusion/calendaring machinery…

 

But……

Somebody, somewhere, still makes plastics every day… no matter what the grocery store tells us… 

There are all kinds of visually clear plastics available from Staples, the office supply superstore… found in boxes called sheet protectors… select a color, select a finish… 

 

Good luck…

It appears like there are many screws to contend with… in this project.  Expect some to get scratched…

 

Fortunately…

Finding replacement screws from Aircraft Spruce probably isn’t that hard…

 

Unfortunately, whatever material they selected originally wasn’t very temperature stable…  where was their polymer guru that day?  

 

Also…

If experimenting with clear films… <10mil thick is considered film, over 10mil is called sheet… A mil is one thousandth of an inch…  

Sheet is the thickness where the material becomes relatively rigid on its own…

 

 

 

PP thoughts only, not an extrusion guru, or a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I believe those panels are made by multiple layers of screen printing on clear plastic. Can be done in your garage if you are persistent enough.

[Marc_B]

3 minutes ago, carusoam said:

It appears like there are many screws to contend with… in this project.  Expect some to get scratched…

Ha ha...so they all looked the same, but I suspect there may be some difference.  Interesting part is that the IPC lists 2 different screws but wrong #'s listed for the quantity.

So the -213 is 4-40 x 1/4" length; the -226 is 6-32 x 1/4" length.  Both are carbon steel.  But looking for similar screws that are black brass I think...funny thing is the the existing screws are definitely magnetic as I had to use a magnet rod to find one that I dropped.

[carusoam]

10 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

Ha ha...so they all looked the same, but I suspect there may be some difference.  Interesting part is that the IPC lists 2 different screws but wrong #'s listed for the quantity.

So the -213 is 4-40 x 1/4" length; the -226 is 6-32 x 1/4" length.  Both are carbon steel.  But looking for similar screws that are black brass I think...funny thing is the the existing screws are definitely magnetic as I had to use a magnet rod to find one that I dropped.

A few things come to mind….

1) I bet Mooney sells the nicely painted screws still….    (Of course, through the MSC network…)
2) My mag compass is on top of the glareshield… really close to the myriad screws…

3) I have only used my mag compass once in anger…. As my HSI rapidly drifted off course after T/O in VMC….

4) Handy iPhone display stepped in to aid in the identification of the error…  Go WingX!  

 

Interesting details!

Thanks for sharing them.

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

If you are in or near a larger city, there should be a plastics store.  They would be worth a run by.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I have had front panels like this made before. Most of these shops can make you a one up run for reasonable money. If you want 100, it won't be much more.

https://frontpanels.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIneDk-NrW-gIVRRh9Ch2vFwSVEAAYASAAEgLVvvD_BwE

https://www.weprofab.com/screen-lens-and-cluster-lens/

This site tells you how to do it:

https://newvintageusallc.mybigcommerce.com/blog/technical-screen-printing/

 

[Pinecone]

If it isn't much more for 100, get them and offer then to others.

Maybe leave one edge unfinished, so they can by owner made.

 

[Marc_B]

5 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

If it isn't much more for 100,

How many of us have this lens?  is it only an Encore thing, or do other models have a lens like this?  Most bravos I've seen have a different rudder trim indication and most earlier Mooney's don't have rudder trim I've found.

I've reached out to the shops above and to my local plastic store and will post what I find.  If you'd be interested in a lens send me a msg and I'll see about adding a few.

[LANCECASPER]

There were only 36 Encores made with this 4 indicator exact set-up. 100 would be overkill

[carusoam]

All of the LBs suffer from the same challenge…. Where the clear layer delaminates over time….

But, the switch layout is different….

Pp thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

There were only 36 Encores made with this 4 indicator exact set-up. 100 would be overkill

Come on, think LONG term.