philip_g Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Just now, ilovecornfields said: No offense, but you’re either bragging about your exceptionally poor decision-making ability or a troll (or both?). I guess if you’re serious about this then make sure your life insurance is paid up, have fun and don’t take anyone with you. Maybe get a couple of GoPros and document the whole thing so the Canadian version of the NTSB won’t have to waste too much time and money figuring out what’s happened. Or his attitude just sucks. No one has scared me in piston poppers like jet pilots that think they can fly anything with wings and haven't flown ga in decades. 3 Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 No, I'm serious. And no...I'll be alone. My only real concern is over Lake Superior...gonna try and avoid that as much as possible....thats about the only thing that might kill me (knocking on wood) Quote
LANCECASPER Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 34 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said: I'm pretty well aware of the winter issues in Canada having lived here my whole life...been to every corner of it in winter (including the North Pole). I have enough winter experience to truly, truly hate winter I have a hockey sock full of CRM (used to be an instructor on the mighty KingAir Beech 90) and 7 tours flying the CC130 tactical in Afghanistan taught me plenty about risk management. Still, when and if it all falls apart...wings level and airspeed....everything else...meh...unless the wing falls off of course...... My biggest worry is treating the engine properly...the actual flying...not so much Oh yeah, tons of SAR time flying in the mountains were I've seen lots of the outcomes of pilot stupidity...don't really want to be part of those statistics The smartest people I have known realize how little they know. The stupidest people I've known try to impress people by how much they know. 1 1 Quote
Culver LFA Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 How do I post one of those little popcorn eating emoji things? I think this thread is an appropriate use for it 1 4 Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 Just now, LANCECASPER said: The smartest people I have known realize how little they know. They don't try to impress people by how much they know. Oh this ain't bragging...just where I've been and what I've done...and survived Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: Please tell me you’re kidding. This Mooney is like a flying lawn mower compared to the stuff that it sounds like you have been flying. Very little capability and even less redundancy. Remember that and live. No doubt I've been spoiled with the equipment I've flown...especially having 2 or more engines....but relatively speaking the Mooney is a pretty good aircraft from what I've experienced and certainly more than a step up from a lawn mower Quote
1980Mooney Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Is anyone going to answer his original question? Per Mike Busch: Mike Busch, author of “the big book on piston engines,” explains why engines need to be run hard for a few initial hours and then offers a concrete procedure: Break in the engine by running it as close to maximum continuous power as possible without allowing any CHT to exceed 420F for Continental cylinders or 440F for Lycoming cylinders. Run it this hard for an hour or two until you see the CHTs come down noticeably , indicating that the lion’s share of the break-in is complete. This requires running at nearly full throttle at a low altitude (the engine won’t generate more than about 75 percent power after climbing to an ordinary cruising altitude of 6,000 or 7,000′ due to the lower density of air molecules up there). 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said: No, I'm serious. And no...I'll be alone. My only real concern is over Lake Superior...gonna try and avoid that as much as possible....thats about the only thing that might kill me (knocking on wood) Lake superior is probably more friendly than the forests that surround it…. Knocking on wood is what happens when landing in trees… Trees aren’t very friendly…. Engine out… in trees… there is a procedure for that…. Check with your transition trainer for the details…. MS has had a few people survive tree experience…. One military pilot won the lottery when it comes to that experience…. (Mooneys don’t climb like twin turbines) Our friend Patrick didn’t get much luck when it came to trees…. (Proper training/experience would have made the difference) Patrick had a really nice M20J… Sounds like a good beverage may have been included with the Hyperbole…. Its getting late on the East Coast… -a- Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 Just now, 1980Mooney said: Is anyone going to answer his original question? Per Mike Busch: Mike Busch, author of “the big book on piston engines,” explains why engines need to be run hard for a few initial hours and then offers a concrete procedure: Break in the engine by running it as close to maximum continuous power as possible without allowing any CHT to exceed 420F for Continental cylinders or 440F for Lycoming cylinders. Run it this hard for an hour or two until you see the CHTs come down noticeably , indicating that the lion’s share of the break-in is complete. This requires running at nearly full throttle at a low altitude (the engine won’t generate more than about 75 percent power after climbing to an ordinary cruising altitude of 6,000 or 7,000′ due to the lower density of air molecules up there). Thank you...this is what I'm looking for. Most of this will be done by the test pilot Quote
Culver LFA Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 I'll answer his original question, pull the red knob all the way back and step away from the airplane. 1 3 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Have fun. Enjoy your new airplane. Just do it during the day and in good weather until you get that warm fuzzy feeling about your plane. 1 Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 Just now, N201MKTurbo said: Have fun. Enjoy your new airplane. Just do it during the day and in good weather until you get that warm fuzzy feeling about your plane. Believe it or not...I do have a lot of common sense and no death wish....flying is relatively safe. I did my first sky dive from 12,500 this summer...now thats a bit more unnerving. Quote
Ned Gravel Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 1 hour ago, 201er said: My point is to take a day or two to fly the heck out of it in the vicinity of the maintenance shop. First 3 hours I probably wouldn’t venture more than 50 miles away. Then do some cross country flights but coming back. Have them change the oil and reinspect everything. And only then head out on your return voyage. Run it hard generally requires you to stay below 3000ft to make that kind of power. You’ll want to get some time and confidence but you also want to seat the rings. Last thing you want to do is go up to 11,000ft and be making low power or be skimming trees at 2000ft on a new engine. Take some time to break it in, get to know it, and get it rechecked before going anywhere far. + 1 on what Mike said here. Have you asked Clarence what he suggests for the break in? I would take his advice above many others. When he reinstalled my overhauled engine in 2012 or so, he told me exactly what Mike says here. 1 Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ned Gravel said: + 1 on what Mike said here. Have you asked Clarence what he suggests for the break in? I would take his advice above many others. When he reinstalled my overhauled engine in 2012 or so, he told me exactly what Mike says here. Yes, I've spoken to Clarence on the phone and of course will most definitely be speaking to him in person in the not to distant future. The cowlings will come off after the test flights and after my flights to have a good look for leaks or anything else that might be amiss. Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, JohnZ said: @GeneralT001 for what it’s worth I fly with former C-5, C-130, F-16, King Air, airline, etc. guys all of the time in my job. I also have given instruction to them from time to time in 172’s. There was one occasion where I could not sign off a former F-16 instructor pilot to take his family in the rental Skyhawk after conducting a checkout. He required multiple flights and several hours of additional training. These guys are expert aviators and got way behind the airplane in something as simple as a 172. Tactical flying is different than general aviation. Single engine piston is different from multi engine turboprop. The differences are akin to a go-cart vs a Mack Truck. The operational risk management is really stacked against you here. Experience in type: low, weather: winter, airplane: new engine, terrain: mountainous/forested… Myself and many others on here would highly recommend that you meet a CFI with Mooney experience at the airport and conduct a few hours of training with them. There is no downsides to this. Utilize those military Risk Management techniques. Well, what I have going for me is that the technology I flew in is all dated from the 60's (Twin Otters/Buffalos/C130 E and H models. No fly by wire here Just good ole bells and cranks and on a good day some hydraulics Quote
carusoam Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 23 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said: Believe it or not... Why is it people continue to try to help you out…? Why is it you deflect the help, and then bring up another different topic of acceptable risk taking…? Or was the parachute recently OH’d? Did you get any training for that? There are certain risks that can be mitigated for flying single engine, new 2U, recently OH’d planes, across huge tracts of inhospitable land… with little cell phone coverage… in winter…. Ned, above also has extensive Mooney flying experience in Canada… and has the IO360 in his M20E… which is pretty much the same engine as the M20J… Come back again tomorrow… Read each author’s input carefully…. You will see many things in common… MS wants you to be successful… You have… Just a few more boxes to check… Again, best to review on a different day…. The IO360 is pretty good at protecting itself… The things to avoid are usually things that interrupt the break-in process… that lead to a costly re-hone and start over…. Not dangerous… just expensive and needless…. Break-in flying can be really fun… high power, low altitude (for MP), and altering the RPM… to avoid steps wearing in near the top of the cylinder… not at the top…. New to Mooney flying is the unneeded risk taking… buy the training, get the experience…. Get started on the right foot… …and skip the words ‘test flights’…. Real test flights use a team of people and pages of boxes to be checked… … kind of like taking a test drive… to see how you feel about the car… PP thoughts only, not a CFI… trying to keep light humor going in a serious topic… Best regards, -a- Quote
ilovecornfields Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Is there a way to link this thread to the one about our insurance rates going up? Seems like they might be related… 2 Quote
carusoam Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Hmmmmmm…. Good catch ILC! Speaking of insurance…. Often, the insurance company you select… will give guidelines of how many hours they require you to have for Transition Training, dual and solo hours before your coverage goes into full effect… GT, Did you get insurance for your new bird? Want or Need a recommendation…? Canada requirements may differ from the US… MS has a really good insurance guy… who is helpful, and supports people to find the right coverage or point them in the right direction if he doesn’t cover their area… Best regards, -a- Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, carusoam said: Hmmmmmm…. Good catch ILC! Speaking of insurance…. Often, the insurance company you select… will give guidelines of how many hours they require you to have for Transition Training, dual and solo hours before your coverage goes into full effect… GT, Did you get insurance for your new bird? Want or Need a recommendation…? Canada requirements may differ from the US… MS has a really good insurance guy… who is helpful, and supports people to find the right coverage or point them in the right direction if he doesn’t cover their area… Best regards, -a- Thanks. I already have insurance and like all things in Canada it costs more and you get less Quote
carusoam Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said: Thanks. I already have insurance and like all things in Canada it costs more and you get less Check and see if they gave you training requirements… In the US… The number of hours are at most 10 dual and 10 solo… for little to no experience in type… a good day of dual covers brushing up in all the things that can wreck your day, and hit all the E-procedures…. Little of this is natural or obvious… There are a few things in GA, that you only get seconds to figure out…. When you don’t recognize the issue immediately, you are running out of seconds to do anything about it…. How often in your pro piloting do you practice engine-out scenarios? Around here we have Nate, who wrote a book about that too…. Nate has a military pilot background…. A good read, available electronically, for not much dough…. Use Smile.Amazon.com…. And a few cents go back into the MS coffers… Engine Outs happen… often on departure, slow, with a high AOA…. The extra stresses of high power, and the engine still warming up… This is the few seconds that really matter… The next opportunity to do the right thing comes during the Go-around… you get a few seconds to figure this out on your own…. Better to see these with a Mooney specific CFI setting it up for you…. Work on your WnB calculations in your spare time… somebody with tons of hours botched this one up over the summer… overloaded and out of runway… Best regards, -a- Quote
ZuluZulu Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 4 hours ago, GeneralT001 said: Oh this ain't bragging...just where I've been and what I've done...and survived Good thing no turbine driver with combat experience has ever crashed a puny piston plane in the history of aviation. Look it up, folks. I don't know why everyone seems to doubt your genius plan to fly 5000 km in a totally unknown plane with a totally unknown engine with minimal effort to prepare whatsoever on a tight schedule in the most unfavorable weather possible. They're probably just jealous they're too weak to try it. Haters! 1 1 Quote
Will.iam Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 4 hours ago, carusoam said: Check and see if they gave you training requirements… In the US… The number of hours are at most 10 dual and 10 solo… for little to no experience in type… a good day of dual covers brushing up in all the things that can wreck your day, and hit all the E-procedures…. Little of this is natural or obvious… There are a few things in GA, that you only get seconds to figure out…. When you don’t recognize the issue immediately, you are running out of seconds to do anything about it…. How often in your pro piloting do you practice engine-out scenarios? Around here we have Nate, who wrote a book about that too…. Nate has a military pilot background…. A good read, available electronically, for not much dough…. Use Smile.Amazon.com…. And a few cents go back into the MS coffers… Engine Outs happen… often on departure, slow, with a high AOA…. The extra stresses of high power, and the engine still warming up… This is the few seconds that really matter… The next opportunity to do the right thing comes during the Go-around… you get a few seconds to figure this out on your own…. Better to see these with a Mooney specific CFI setting it up for you…. Work on your WnB calculations in your spare time… somebody with tons of hours botched this one up over the summer… overloaded and out of runway… Best regards, -a- Do you have a link to that nook? Or what is the title called? I would like to buy a copy. Quote
carusoam Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Will.iam said: Do you have a link to that nook? Or what is the title called? I would like to buy a copy. https://smile.amazon.com/Engine-Out-Survival-Tactics-Emergencies-ebook/dp/B01HTWFPQU/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Aircraft+engine+out&qid=1639571038&s=digital-text&sr=1-1 Nate aka @Buster1 The above link uses the smile.Amazon connection that throws off cents towards MooneySummit foundation… Best regards, -a- Quote
Tony Starke Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said: No offense, but you’re either bragging about your exceptionally poor decision-making ability or a troll (or both?). I guess if you’re serious about this then make sure your life insurance is paid up, have fun and don’t take anyone with you. Maybe get a couple of GoPros and document the whole thing so the Canadian version of the NTSB won’t have to waste too much time and money figuring out what’s happened. No offense but were you abused as a child? Quote
takair Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Unfortunately transition training and engine break in can be two of the most incompatible combinations. I didn’t see anybody mention the Lycoming break in instructions. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Reciprocating engine Break-In and Oil Consumption.pdf I most recently followed this explicitly on my new cylinders and was very pleased with the results. Many of the on line instructions and shop instructions are really an attempt to summarize and shorten what is in here. The reason I say that transition training is incompatible is because you are often flying with power settings not conducive to a proper break in. In fact, those settings are often conducive to glazing. Anyway, if you could get the shop to do a few hours of break in, it would be beneficial if you were to do some transition time before the long cross country, which will actually be great for break in…but a little nerve wracking with a new engine. Quote
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