Change engine

[Marcus]

On a M20C the typical engine is an O-360-???.  Obviously a carbureted engine.  Can the engine be changed to an IO-360, injected engine?  Love to hear your opinions.

[N201MKTurbo]

It would be easier to just buy a M20E.

Aside from the legal stuff, you would need to change the cowl and air box. Practically everything forward of the firewall.

[toto]

The O-360 is pretty bulletproof. I’d just fly it until you want something else that comes with injection. 

Is the concern about LOP operation? You can buy a lot of gas for the price of an engine swap

 

[Rwsavory]

31 minutes ago, Marcus said:

On a M20C the typical engine is an O-360-???.  Obviously a carbureted engine.  Can the engine be changed to an IO-360, injected engine?  Love to hear your opinions.

Yes, it’s an O-360 in a C.  No, you can’t change it.  

[Hank]

The O-360-A1D is a good engine, strong, simple, easy to operate and it even hot starts easily, no incantations or sacrifices required. 

[Ragsf15e]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

The O-360-A1D is a good engine, strong, simple, easy to operate and it even hot starts easily, no incantations or sacrifices required. 

Ha!  Unless it’s chilly outside…

[Hank]

Just now, Ragsf15e said:

Ha!  Unless it’s chilly outside…

Run electric pump until fuel pressure peaks and holds, then turn it off; mixture rich; pump throttle 5 times; wind & set clock, don headset (to give cold fuel time to vaporize in the carb bowl); turn the key and push.

If it's really cold, like when I lived in West Virginny, spin the prop by hand a couple of rotations first.

Preheat helps, and is better for the engine, too.

My coldest start was 8°F, after a couple hours of Tanis Preheat from a cellular switch. No problem.

[Ragsf15e]

Just now, Hank said:

Run electric pump until fuel pressure peaks and holds, then turn it off; mixture rich; pump throttle 5 times; wind & set clock, don headset (to give cold fuel time to vaporize in the carb bowl); turn the key and push.

If it's really cold, like when I lived in West Virginny, spin the prop by hand a couple of rotations first.

Preheat helps, and is better for the engine, too.

My coldest start was 8°F, after a couple hours of Tanis Preheat from a cellular switch. No problem.

But what if you do 4 pumps?  What if you didn’t wind the clock as much?  Oh if only there was an engine like the io-360 that starts reliably when cold?! 

[LANCECASPER]

11 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

But what if you do 4 pumps?  What if you didn’t wind the clock as much?  Oh if only there was an engine like the io-360 that starts reliably when cold?! 

If you only do 4 pumps then you have to make a small sacrifice to Venturi, the god of carbureted internal combustion.

[Marcus]

WOW!  Wasn't trying to start something here.  I have no problem with the 0360.  I'm thinking about purchasing an m2c with no engine.  I'm having a hard time finding one since I don't have a core to exchange and thought that if an IO could be put in that would give me more options.  But obviously that is not an option.  I appreciate all the comments.

[toto]

2 minutes ago, Marcus said:

WOW!  Wasn't trying to start something here.  I have no problem with the 0360.  I'm thinking about purchasing an m2c with no engine.  I'm having a hard time finding one since I don't have a core to exchange and thought that if an IO could be put in that would give me more options.  But obviously that is not an option.  I appreciate all the comments.

Dare I ask how the airplane came to have no engine at all?

 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Run electric pump until fuel pressure peaks and holds, then turn it off; mixture rich; pump throttle 5 times; wind & set clock, don headset (to give cold fuel time to vaporize in the carb bowl); turn the key and push.

If it's really cold, like when I lived in West Virginny, spin the prop by hand a couple of rotations first.

Preheat helps, and is better for the engine, too.

My coldest start was 8°F, after a couple hours of Tanis Preheat from a cellular switch. No problem.

Sounds like an incantation to me...

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Rwsavory said:

Yes, it’s an O-360 in a C.  No, you can’t change it.  

Not true.

LASAR has an STC to swap the O-360 for the IO-360, and has had for 30+ years.

Like Rich said, it’s easier and cheaper to just buy the M20E.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Andy95W

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, Marcus said:

WOW!  Wasn't trying to start something here.  I have no problem with the 0360.  I'm thinking about purchasing an m2c with no engine.  I'm having a hard time finding one since I don't have a core to exchange and thought that if an IO could be put in that would give me more options.  But obviously that is not an option.  I appreciate all the comments.

You would be a perfect candidate for the LASAR STC.

https://lasar.com/mods

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Andy95W

[Rwsavory]

I stand corrected. Still, totally impractical.

[carusoam]

10 hours ago, Rwsavory said:

I stand corrected. Still, totally impractical.

No… 

Not impractical to some people….

 

And… Welcome aboard Marcus!

Some people have spent many years getting their M20C the way they like it….

Then cross the line…. Of needing an OH…

Suddenly things get re-examed…. And fuel injection is an improvement…

 

 

Now… back to the OP…

What makes you want to buy a Mooney with no engine….?

If the answer is anything like… I want to save some money while building a plane….

You can now add the cost of the Lasar STC… to the list of things necessary to put an IO360 into the plane….

Or find an M20E that is missing the engine….   And do the math on that option….

 

The bummer…. Is that the M20E and M20C are essentially identical from the firewall back…. Except one piece of sheet metal riveted to the side of the plane that is stamped M20E or M20C…

The E uses the IO360…

The C can use the IO360 if it has the STC in its paperwork collection…

Go fourth and add power…

 

If RWS’s argument of being impractical holds water….

Most of us would be selling planes tomorrow….

Impractical… is what we are good at….

At least with the IO360 STC… you can gain enough efficiency to pay for itself over the lifetime of the airplane…. 
 

It may even work as an incentive to live longer…. 
 

Definitely an incentive to add some instrumentation like an engine monitor and FF gauge…

 

Lastly, if you are new to aviation… thinking adding an engine to a low cost used up airframe is a cheap way to get flying….

Most pilots around here recommend finding a flying Mooney that is current in all aspects is the lowest cost route….

Some surprises come in for automotive mechanics with no aviation background….  There are lots of easy things for them to do… but they don’t have the required FAA background to do them…. Legal paperwork challenge….

Best regards,

-a-

[Rwsavory]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

No… 

Not impractical to some people….

 

And… Welcome aboard Marcus!

Some people have spent many years getting their M20C the way they like it….

Then cross the line…. Of needing an OH…

Suddenly things get re-examed…. And fuel injection is an improvement…

 

 

Now… back to the OP…

What makes you want to buy a Mooney with no engine….?

If the answer is anything like… I want to save some money while building a plane….

You can now add the cost of the Lasar STC… to the list of things necessary to put an IO360 into the plane….

Or find an M20E that is missing the engine….   And do the math on that option….

 

The bummer…. Is that the M20E and M20C are essentially identical from the firewall back…. Except one piece of sheet metal riveted to the side of the plane that is stamped M20E or M20C…

The E uses the IO360…

The C can use the IO360 if it has the STC in its paperwork collection…

Go fourth and add power…

 

If RWS’s argument of being impractical holds water….

Most of us would be selling planes tomorrow….

Impractical… is what we are good at….

At least with the IO360 STC… you can gain enough efficiency to pay for itself over the lifetime of the airplane…. 
 

It may even work as an incentive to live longer…. 
 

Definitely an incentive to add some instrumentation like an engine monitor and FF gauge…

 

Lastly, if you are new to aviation… thinking adding an engine to a low cost used up airframe is a cheap way to get flying….

Most pilots around here recommend finding a flying Mooney that is current in all aspects is the lowest cost route….

Some surprises come in for automotive mechanics with no aviation background….  There are lots of easy things for them to do… but they don’t have the required FAA background to do them…. Legal paperwork challenge….

Best regards,

-a-

A valiant effort, but it’s impractical nonetheless.  

[DonMuncy]

44 minutes ago, Rwsavory said:

A valiant effort, but it’s impractical nonetheless.  

If we were all practical, we would not be aircraft owners.

[Rwsavory]

7 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

If we were all practical, we would not be aircraft owners.

Touché   LOL. 

[steingar]

I have this stupid habit of buying airplanes complete with engines.  Never thought of the engine as an option.  Silly me.

[RobertGary1]

14 minutes ago, steingar said:

I have this stupid habit of buying airplanes complete with engines.  Never thought of the engine as an option.  Silly me.

Some of the best flying g I’ve ever done were in aircraft without an engine 

[MooneyMitch]

Dear OP.

As stated, welcome to all things Mooney (MS). 

As you’ve probably discovered from your post responses, there are so many knowledgeable Mooney people on this site.  
 

And, with that can come your way, a million bits of information, solicited or not.

It’s mostly all great stuff as you travel down the Mooney knowledge path.  Enjoy it all as intentions are always ( mostly ) well meant.

[cliffy]

All that work and effort and what do you gain?

Maybe 15 mph?  9% in speed 9.6 hrs less at 100 hrs/yr 

50% recovery of investment if you sell

 not a quantum leap in speed

[aviatoreb]

47 minutes ago, cliffy said:

All that work and effort and what do you gain?

Maybe 15 mph?  9% in speed 9.6 hrs less at 100 hrs/yr 

50% recovery of investment if you sell

 not a quantum leap in speed

?

I don't understand.  15mph faster.  Yeah baby!