How much life are you getting out of your battery(ies)?

[aggiepilot04]

One of my Concorde batteries kicked the bucket. From reviewing my logbooks, I think it's the first time that it has been replaced since the plane was built in 2008. 13 years seems like a pretty good run? I've had them on a Battery Minder for the last few years, and I'm assuming the previous owner did so as well since the airplane is wired for it. Curious to get a few datapoints around this.

• Brand
• 12/24V
• Time in Service (current or the longest run you had previously)
• Kept on BatteryMinder? If so, how often?
• Location (temperature is a factor, right?)

[A64Pilot]

Everything other than a Concorde is a step down, now that’s an opinion of course but at least whatever you do don’t go with a wet battery that can leak acid and corrode things, it’s just not worth it, especially not for a new airplane like you have.

An argument is, is the XC Concorde battery worth the extra money, I can’t answer that myself, but usually buy them 

Oh, and Concorde is a family owned completely US business, and the batteries are manufactured in the US, to me that makes a difference.

If your curious there is a date stamp on the battery, but I’m not sure where, but feel sure there is one.

Edited October 26, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, aggiepilot04 said:

One of my Concorde batteries kicked the bucket. From reviewing my logbooks, I think it's the first time that it has been replaced since the plane was built in 2008. 13 years seems like a pretty good run? I've had them on a Battery Minder for the last few years, and I'm assuming the previous owner did so as well since the airplane is wired for it. Curious to get a few datapoints around this.

• Brand
• 12/24V
• Time in Service (current or the longest run you had previously)
• Kept on BatteryMinder? If so, how often?
• Location (temperature is a factor, right?)

After 31 years of ownership, I have become a Concorde believer. I started off with Gills (12 Volt) and after replacing 2 of them in the first 7 years, I switched to a Concorde. That first battery lasted 13 years (I had load testing done on it and never had an issue with it starting). I replaced it because it was 13 years old. The second Concorde was 7 years old and going strong when the avionics shop's technician over torqued the bolt and stripped out the threads on it. The current one has been in there for 4 years. Here are the things I do:

> I use a Concorde specific BatteryMinder. It is on the battery every time I park the plane in the hangar. The new style BatteryMinder chargers have some battery health features that my original one did not.

> The BatteryMinder has a temperature feature that will compensate charging for hot and cold environments.

> I have the battery load tested at the annual. I recently purchased a load tester for my vehicles, tractors and lawn mowers. When I have the battery load tested this year, I will compare what I get on my load tester.

My understanding is Gill redesigned their batteries not too long ago. Can't speak to how good the new Gills are. 

Hope this helps.

[LANCECASPER]

I’m only speaking from personal experience here, others may not have the same experience . . . 

Texas summers are brutal on batteries in any vehicle. Eighteen months ago I needed a battery to replace one of my Concordes - it failed capacity after 5.5 years. Since the Concorde RG 24-15 was backordered, against my better judgment, after being burned by numerous Gill G-243 batteries over the years, I bought the new sealed GIll 7243-16 ($675) to replace my almost six year old Concorde. I then bought the Gill Sealed LT specific battery minder ($225) . The new style Gill didn't quite make it through two Texas summers. It failed the capacity test at annual. I hate admitting that I bought another Gill when I swore I would never do that. Gill got me again. Completely my fault. I knew better. I'm back to two Concorde RG 24-15 batteries.

On this airplane I think the voltage regulator might be set or or two tenths too high, so that may be why I am going through Concordes and Gills more often than I should. Others @tls pilot have had good success with Gills, just not me.

[smwash02]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I’m only speaking from personal experience here, others may not have the same experience . . . 

Texas summers are brutal on batteries in any vehicle. Eighteen months ago I needed a battery to replace one of my Concordes - it failed capacity after 5.5 years. Since the Concorde RG 24-15 was backordered, against my better judgment, after being burned by numerous Gill G-243 batteries over the years, I bought the new sealed GIll 7243-16 to replace my almost six year old Concorde. I then bought the Gill Sealed LT specific battery minder. The new style Gill didn't quite make it through two Texas summers. It failed the capacity test at annual. I hate admitting that I bought another Gill when I swore I would never do that. Gill got me again. Completely my fault. I knew better. I'm back to two Concorde RG 24-15 batteries.

Your experience mirrors mine. 2-3 in cars, 2-3 for a Gill, 5-7 with the Concorde in Texas.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

Your experience mirrors mine. 2-3 in cars, 2-3 for a Gill, 5-7 with the Concorde in Texas.

I get 5-7 for Concordes in AL, but usually exceed the free exchange period on car batteries (although I just replaced the wife's battery after 18 months).

[StevenL757]

3 hours ago, aggiepilot04 said:

One of my Concorde batteries kicked the bucket. From reviewing my logbooks, I think it's the first time that it has been replaced since the plane was built in 2008. 13 years seems like a pretty good run? I've had them on a Battery Minder for the last few years, and I'm assuming the previous owner did so as well since the airplane is wired for it. Curious to get a few datapoints around this.

• Brand - Concorde RG24-15M (x2)
• 12/24V - 24V
• Time in Service (current or the longest run you had previously) - 8 years+
• Kept on BatteryMinder? If so, how often? - No.  Airplane was flown ~130 hours per year.  Fly the airplane regularly, and a battery minder isn't needed.
• Location (temperature is a factor, right?) - Long Island, NY (hangared...has good electric, but not heated or AC-equipped)

My data above in bold...

[aggiepilot04]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Everything other than a Concorde is a step down, now that’s an opinion of course but at least whatever you do don’t go with a wet battery that can leak acid and corrode things, it’s just not worth it, especially not for a new airplane like you have.

An argument is, is the XC Concorde battery worth the extra money, I can’t answer that myself, but usually buy them 

Oh, and Concorde is a family owned completely US business, and the batteries are manufactured in the US, to me that makes a difference.

If your curious there is a date stamp on the battery, but I’m not sure where, but feel sure there is one.

Is the XC something that is 12V-specific? I think my only option is the RG24-15?

I should also mention that the previous owner was in the NE. I have owned the airplane about 5 years now, and 2 of those were in Seattle....so really only 3 years of Texas heat.

[201er]

I did 10 years on a Concorde since I bought the plane and don't know how much longer it got before that. I really milked it to the very last. The battery was so weak that if it didn't catch on the 2nd blade, that was it. I held my breath getting it started for the last flight when I flew to get it changed.

Car batteries don't last anywhere near as many years but considering they get fired up multiple times a day and pretty much daily, I wonder if it's actually the car battery that lasts through more starts than an airplane battery!

[Austintatious]

I have wondered why Lithium Iron (not ION) batteries have not caught on in aircraft... they are extremely light weight, have a lot of capacity and no catastrophic failure modes.  I use one in my experimental glider and it is great.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Austintatious

[aggiepilot04]

3 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

I have wondered why Lithium Iron (not ION) batteries have no caught on in aircraft... they are extremely light weight, have a lot of capacity and no catastrophic failure modes.  I use one in my experimental glider and it is great.

Would love to get some of that 60lbs back, but I'm pretty sure that I'd run into CG issues if my batteries weighed less. Maybe Lithium Iron + MT prop?

[tls pilot]

3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I’m only speaking from personal experience here, others may not have the same experience . . . 

Texas summers are brutal on batteries in any vehicle. Eighteen months ago I needed a battery to replace one of my Concordes - it failed capacity after 5.5 years. Since the Concorde RG 24-15 was backordered, against my better judgment, after being burned by numerous Gill G-243 batteries over the years, I bought the new sealed GIll 7243-16 ($675) to replace my almost six year old Concorde. I then bought the Gill Sealed LT specific battery minder ($225) . The new style Gill didn't quite make it through two Texas summers. It failed the capacity test at annual. I hate admitting that I bought another Gill when I swore I would never do that. Gill got me again. Completely my fault. I knew better. I'm back to two Concorde RG 24-15 batteries.

On this airplane I think the voltage regulator might be set or or two tenths too high, so that may be why I am going through Concordes and Gills more often than I should. Others @tls pilot have had good success with Gills, just not me.

What is your bus voltage when flying? Are you measuring it on a JPI or similar?

(That Gill Battery at18mos or less should have been covered under a warranty. But it sounds like you do not need it or desire to have it…)

what did you do with the battery minder?

Another common issue on the dual battery long bodies, several planes had a small draw of amps with the Master switch off with the #1 battery.

I personally know one person who disconnects the #1 battery if the plane sits for 10+ days.

With a good meter you should be able to assess if a micro amp use.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, tls pilot said:

What is your bus voltage when flying? Are you measuring it on a JPI or similar?  JPI SAYS 28.8

(That Gill Battery at18mos or less should have been covered under a warranty. But it sounds like you do not need it or desire to have it…) GILL TOLD ME TO TALK TO AIRCRAFT SPRUCE, AIRCRAFT SPRUCE SAYS IT HAS TO COME FROM THE MANUFACTURER, GILL, WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE. NEVERTHELESS I ORDERED THE CONCORDE FROM CHIEF AIRCRAFT. I STILL HAVEN’T GIVEN UP. IF I GET A REPLACEMENT I’LL PUT IT ON HERE OR EBAY.

what did you do with the battery minder? GOING TO PUT IT ON EBAY. IF ANYONE WANTS IT ON HERE, $150

Another common issue on the dual battery long bodies, several planes had a small draw of amps with the Master switch off with the #1 battery. NO DRAW MEASURED

I personally know one person who disconnects the #1 battery if the plane sits for 10+ days.

With a good meter you should be able to assess if a micro amp use.

 

[aviatoreb]

12 yrs on my last pair of concords / w battery minder.

[DXB]

I have a 12V system and a Concorde RG35A, which is always on battery minder when in the hangar. It's going strong I think after >5 years of Philly hot summers and cold winters.  A caveat is that I don't do a formal capacity test, and I doubt one has ever been done at annual.  I do use a cheap automotive battery tester that measures cold cranking amps. It's quick and easy and has some value in detecting a really weak battery but may not give much information before then. In an era of Sureflys, the Battery Minder has extra value because there is a slight draw from the Surefly even when the master is off.  If your battery is not on a charger and you have a Surefly, it's a good idea to pull the 10A fuse from the Surefly system to prevent the draw if the plane has to sit for weeks. I think someone here mentioned that a Battery Minder may mask a dying battery by always having it topped off right before you start, and I think that is a good point.  Before I do my annual automotive battery tester evaluation, I leave it off the minder for a week.  I do think it's bonkers to try to milk a battery to the very end of its life, particularly for single battery/alternator planes.  There is the risk of getting stranded, but more importantly, when the charging system dies in flight (and mine has), a battery with good capacity might save your life.    I'm curious what's a good bus voltage for a 12V system - mine reads 14.0-14.1V on the JPI.  Does the ideal voltage regulator setting depend slightly on the battery being used?  Overcharging could certainly reduce life.  

Edited October 26, 2021 by DXB

[aggiepilot04]

39 minutes ago, tls pilot said:

Another common issue on the dual battery long bodies, several planes had a small draw of amps with the Master switch off with the #1 battery.

I flew with @Jerry Proctor a few years back at a PPP, and I seem to recall him having an explanation and/or lesson learned about this. Maybe he could weigh in here.

[JWJR]

I was busy traveling for work, this combined with a long stretch of poor weather resulted in not flying for almost two months. Airport is about an hour from home. So finally had some decent weather and free time…. I drove to the airport and dead Gill battery.Frustrated and slightly annoyed as the battery was somewhat new/newer ( less than two years). The next day I had with free time I bought a Concorde
AXC and the minder designed for it from aircraft supply. I leave it plugged in all the time while hangered. My C starts right up. It’s been six years since install and I went from a insulated hanger to a non insulated. Much hotter and colder now. We finished the annual today and it passed the load test however it will be replaced next year regardless. Very satisfied with Concorde!


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[Guest]

I wonder how many of these Concorde miracle batteries are getting a real capacity test during annual inspection?  In my experience 5 years is a typical life expectancy.

Clarence

[JWJR]

Well whats the old saying…. Your mileage may vary. I’ve read some folks that claim they’re still going strong at 10 years plus.The Concorde I had on my Arrow was given to a friend. His hobby was rebuilding JD tractors. I recall many years later he said he still was using it.


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[toto]

7 hours ago, aggiepilot04 said:

One of my Concorde batteries kicked the bucket. From reviewing my logbooks, I think it's the first time that it has been replaced since the plane was built in 2008. 13 years seems like a pretty good run? I've had them on a Battery Minder for the last few years, and I'm assuming the previous owner did so as well since the airplane is wired for it. Curious to get a few datapoints around this.

• Brand
• 12/24V
• Time in Service (current or the longest run you had previously)
• Kept on BatteryMinder? If so, how often?
• Location (temperature is a factor, right?)

I’ve had four Concorde batteries in the plane in 5 years. The shop says that they have stopped recommending Concorde because they don’t last long if the aircraft isn’t flown very regularly. I fly it about once a week.

Having used Gill in the Piper forever, and not being super impressed with the product, I’m loath to swap out the Concorde for a Gill. But I’m also not excited about another annual this year where they fail the battery and I spend a grand on a new one. 

[JWJR]

I’ve had four Concorde batteries in the plane in 5 years. The shop says that they have stopped recommending Concorde because they don’t last long if the aircraft isn’t flown very regularly. I fly it about once a week.
Having used Gill in the Piper forever, and not being super impressed with the product, I’m loathe to swap out the Concorde for a Gill. But I’m also not excited about another annual this year where they fail the battery and I spend a grand on a new one. 

Research a minder specific for your Concorde. Four in five years… ouch.


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[JWJR]

Reciprocating Engine Starting and Standby Applications
If the Battery or Assembly Part fails during normal and customary use, due to defects in the Battery or Assembly Part's materials or workmanship, after the 180th day (6 months) but no later than the 730th day (24 months), from the Date of First Installation, or after the 300th hour but by no later than the 1200th hour of operation, based on the Logbook or Part History Log, whichever occurs first, then Partial Warranty Credit for the Battery or Assembly Part will be processed


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[toto]

10 minutes ago, JWJR said:

Reciprocating Engine Starting and Standby Applications
If the Battery or Assembly Part fails during normal and customary use, due to defects in the Battery or Assembly Part's materials or workmanship, after the 180th day (6 months) but no later than the 730th day (24 months), from the Date of First Installation, or after the 300th hour but by no later than the 1200th hour of operation, based on the Logbook or Part History Log, whichever occurs first, then Partial Warranty Credit for the Battery or Assembly Part will be processed


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If that’s the Concorde warranty, I’ll just say that I have been round and round with them, and I did get a partial credit, but it was a moderately painful process. I have the paperwork sitting here for #4, and haven’t submitted it yet.

[Tommooney]

I usually get 7ish years from the Concords. Current ones are labeled 2016 and 2017 in black felt pen when they were exchanged.

I put them on a desulfator a couple times a year, but not continuously.,

Tom

[tls pilot]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

 

Years ago, I asked Bill Wheat about voltage

He indicated 29.0 volts is not out of range. Same in the manual. Your 28.8 seems ok

This number will vary with temperature.

Adjusting the voltage regulator is not complicated in a Bravo