Remove doghouse

[Oscar Avalle]

I just heard that there is or was a STC to remove the doghouse from our Mooneys? Who knows anything about this? Any advice more than welcomed!

 

 

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[Mooneymite]

2 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

 

I just heard that there is or was a STC to remove the doghouse from our Mooneys? Who knows anything about this? Any advice more than welcomed!

 

Oscar, why do you want to remove your doghouse?  My C has the doghouse shroud and I credit it with a cool running engine even on the hottest Atlanta days (once I got it all patched and repaired).

[Oscar Avalle]

14 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Oscar, why do you want to remove your doghouse?  My C has the doghouse shroud and I credit it with a cool running engine even on the hottest Atlanta days (once I got it all patched and repaired).

I am having issues with my CHTs and I believe that my doghouse is the issue... so I am thinking of trying a new approach.

 

[Guest]

Do you have the richer mixture carburetor?  Sealing as many gaps as possible between the dog house and the engine will yield lower temps.

Clarence 

[Oscar Avalle]

4 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Do you have the richer mixture carburetor?  Sealing as many gaps as possible between the dog house and the engine will yield lower temps.

Clarence 

Thank you! I just got that carburator. I discovered that I had the wrong one.

 

[DXB]

3 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

 

I just heard that there is or was a STC to remove the doghouse from our Mooneys? Who knows anything about this? Any advice more than welcomed!

 

 

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I believe the the SWTA cowl mod STC allows for it, but it hasnt been available for some tme?  Its similar to the ARI mod in the front, which unfortunately keeps the doghouse.  I’ve spent years working on tightening the doghouse, perfecting timing, making sure I reach 18gph fuel flow at takeoff (have the richer carb), making sure no induction leak, perfecting takeoff technique. The damn thing runs hot - only way to ignore is not have a good engine monitor.  I would dump the doghouse in a heartbeat if given the opportunity!

[carusoam]

Inviting Don to the conversation... @hammdo something we started discussing yesterday...

Best regards,

-a-

[Oscar Avalle]

Thanks, I have the same issue and I did the same things you did and the dam thing is running ultra hot


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[carusoam]

Inviting @Sabremech because he is really familiar with cooling the M20C...

Best regards,

-a-

[hammdo]

Mine has the sabremech cowling with the new baffles. It did have the SWTA cowling installed via STC until David did his magic. My CHT temps have benn great so far but, we've not hit the 100s yet ;o). Not expecting any issues either... 

I'll get a link to my baffles here in a sec... 

-Don 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Thanks, I have the same issue and I did the same things you did and the dam thing is running ultra hot


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What type of engine monitor do you have?  Where/ what type of thermocouples do you have?

What is the condition of the forward rubber seal from the baffles to the cowl, is the seal tucked into the grove in the cowl?  Any large gaps around the starter or alternator?  Any large gaps which allow air leakage below the cylinders reduce the differential pressure pressure from above and below the cylinders will reduce cooling efficiency.

How wide are the gaps between the Lycoming inner cylinder baffles and the Mooney baffles which wrap around the cylinders, a narrow gaps reduces air flow.

Clarence

[Oscar Avalle]

Mine has the sabremech cowling with the new baffles. It did have the SWTA cowling installed via STC until David did his magic. My CHT temps have benn great so far but, we've not hit the 100s yet ;o). Not expecting any issues either... 
I'll get a link to mine baffles here in a sec... 
-Don 

Don

Please do so! I have the ARI mod I would love to see what you did


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[hammdo]

Here it is! David did a great job...

201 spinner with the Sabremech gen1 cowl.

I’m guessing a 337 could be accomplished too

-Don

[Oscar Avalle]

What type of engine monitor do you have?  Where/ what type of thermocouples do you have?

What is the condition of the forward rubber seal from the baffles to the cowl, is the seal tucked into the grove in the cowl?  Any large gaps around the starter or alternator?  Any large gaps which allow air leakage below the cylinders reduce the differential pressure pressure from above and below the cylinders will reduce cooling efficiency.

How wide are the gaps between the Lycoming inner cylinder baffles and the Mooney baffles which wrap around the cylinders, a narrow gaps reduces air flow.

Clarence

 

Clarence, I have a JPI 900. I have done everything by the book. Changed even the doghouse and got a new one! Inner baffles are fine...

 

 

 

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[Oscar Avalle]

Here it is! David did a great job...
201 spinner with the Sabremech gen1 cowl.
I’m guessing a 337 could be accomplished too
-Don

Can you send me some more detailed pictures? I really like this and I would love to adapt it to my mooney


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[Guest]

In your first 2 pictures it looks like some of the sealant may be blocking the fins?

Clarence

[DXB]

Just now, M20Doc said:

In your first 2 pictures it looks like some of the sealant may be blocking the fins?

Clarence

I have that on mine too - high temp RTV sealing gap between front of baffle and fins but pushed into gap between the fins on the front two cylinders. Regardless #4 is the most problematic in my case but will check if the RTV might have been overdone for #2. Overall picture for me is #1 and #3 cool well whereas #2 and #4 do not.  

34 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

How wide are the gaps between the Lycoming inner cylinder baffles and the Mooney baffles which wrap around the cylinders, a narrow gaps reduces air flow.

Clarence

I'm curious exactly what to look for on the inter-cylinder baffles - mine look like what Oscar pictures.  I need to firgure out a way to increase airflow across 2 and particularly 4.

FWIW I have JPI EDM900 probes in factory slots and all the front seals you describe meticulously rehabbed without much improvement, as well as a richer carb with 18gph on takeoff.  

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Changed even the doghouse and got a new one! Inner baffles are fine...

It's possible to get a new doghouse??? Tell me more!

[Oscar Avalle]

It's possible to get a new doghouse??? Tell me more!

Yes, there was an option to get a doghouse from airform. Unfortunate they stopped selling them

Oscar


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[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Yes, there was an option to get a doghouse from airform. Unfortunate they stopped selling them

Oscar


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I have talked to both the wife and husband of Airforms. If you talk to them real nice and promise not to give them any grief about them not fitting perfectly and needing some rework to fit your plane, they might be convinced to make one for you.

They have the PMA for all that Mooney stuff. But they quit selling it because Mooney parts are hand crafted one at a time and there is no standard part that will fit every plane. Yet, getting the parts From them would be a great place to start.

[MB65E]

Hi Oscar, some one took the time to do cam locks on the doghouse. That’s neat. I did see some air gaps/daylight in your doghouse. I believe the doghouse helps cooling and the baffles were a lazy way to improve access to the top of the engine. I noticed your lower baffle rod was rubbing on your oil drain back lines. I’ve replaced mine a few times due to this reason. Also noticed the gaps around the alternator. 
I have zero cooling issues on my E and have flown it in AZ on 110° days.

-Matt

[67 m20F chump]

Not to be a jerk but it looks like the oil return line has been rubbing on the thing that supports the baffling front to back.  I had the same issue with my return line.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, DXB said:

I have that on mine too - high temp RTV sealing gap between front of baffle and fins but pushed into gap between the fins on the front two cylinders. Regardless #4 is the most problematic in my case but will check if the RTV might have been overdone for #2. Overall picture for me is #1 and #3 cool well whereas #2 and #4 do not.  

I'm curious exactly what to look for on the inter-cylinder baffles - mine look like what Oscar pictures.  I need to firgure out a way to increase airflow across 2 and particularly 4.

FWIW I have JPI EDM900 probes in factory slots and all the front seals you describe meticulously rehabbed without much improvement, as well as a richer carb with 18gph on takeoff.  

There isn’t really a spec for the gap that I’ve seen, but if the baffles have been repaired, the gaps can become narrowed.  They should all be the same width.

Clarence

[Oscar Avalle]

9 hours ago, MB65E said:

Hi Oscar, some one took the time to do cam locks on the doghouse. That’s neat. I did see some air gaps/daylight in your doghouse. I believe the doghouse helps cooling and the baffles were a lazy way to improve access to the top of the engine. I noticed your lower baffle rod was rubbing on your oil drain back lines. I’ve replaced mine a few times due to this reason. Also noticed the gaps around the alternator. 
I have zero cooling issues on my E and have flown it in AZ on 110° days.

-Matt

Matt thank you! I am going to the airport today and I will check on this.

[Greg Ellis]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:31 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

I have talked to both the wife and husband of Airforms. If you talk to them real nice and promise not to give them any grief about them not fitting perfectly and needing some rework to fit your plane, they might be convinced to make one for you.

I got a new doghouse from Airforms quite a few years ago.  It fit perfectly and better specs than the original.  Only had to adjust one spot in the front.  They made a quality product in my view and too bad they stopped making them for the Mooney.