Mars Helicopter

[BDPetersen]

Ingenuity. Gravity a bit over 1/3 that of Earth. Density altitude of Martian atmosphere equivalent to 100,000 feet. Really?

[carusoam]

2,400 counter rotating rpm...  according to Alexa...

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

  On 3/25/2021 at 12:12 AM, BDPetersen said:

Ingenuity. Gravity a bit over 1/3 that of Earth. Density altitude of Martian atmosphere equivalent to 100,000 feet. Really?

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Really.  I too was skeptical so I did some research and found a NASA paper online with the title: "Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstrator"  From reading that paper I learned that they tested it a vacuum chamber on earth at a CO2 atmospheric pressure of 7 Torr (7 mm Hg abs.), and T=-50C, mounted to a carbon fiber rod to simulate the reduced gravity on Mars.  It flew!   Its carbon fiber composite blades are 4' tip-to-tip with quite a bit of plan area.  The day that thing flies on Mars will be a day to remember.  Cool that they added a swatch of the Wright's 1903 flyer.  That's a fence post nobody else will piss on first.

[EricJ]

The engineering is pretty straightforward and it seems like they have it down pretty good and tested well enough to expect a high probability of success.   I think they're missing out by not marketing toys or drone versions here. 

 

[aviatoreb]

This is really really cool!

[carusoam]

  On 3/25/2021 at 11:55 PM, EricJ said:

The engineering is pretty straightforward and it seems like they have it down pretty good and tested well enough to expect a high probability of success.   I think they're missing out by not marketing toys or drone versions here. 

 

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Eric, 
You are half way to receiving the Awesome Capitalist award! 

 

Take a page out of Mike Patey’s Book.... Draco lives...   Everybody can now purchase a scale RC model that looks very much like Draco the turbine Wilga...

 

Drones are more popular than RC planes... I think you could make a successful project out of it...

Best regards,

-a-

[BDPetersen]

I knew it was real. Thanks for explaining. I just hope it finds Sasquatch.

[steingar]

I imagine those blades can get going pretty fast before they have to worry about going supersonic.  It'll fly, and boy will it be a day to remember.  Our first flight on another world.

Actually, the Eagle blasted off from the Moon, which technically counts as flying.  So we really kinda already did it.

[N201MKTurbo]

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-ingenuity-mars-helicopter-prepares-for-first-flight
 

[MooneyMitch]

This is incredibly exciting!!!

I wonder...... is Ingenuity a helicopter or is it a drone?

I do think “helicopter” gives a better impression though....... super cool regardless!! 

[0TreeLemur]

  On 3/26/2021 at 1:04 PM, steingar said:

I imagine those blades can get going pretty fast before they have to worry about going supersonic.  It'll fly, and boy will it be a day to remember.  Our first flight on another world.

Actually, the Eagle blasted off from the Moon, which technically counts as flying.  So we really kinda already did it.

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Rather than "flight" I'd say rocketry lies more in the category of "falling with style" to quote a line from Toy Story, because the FBD contains only thrust and gravity vectors, while lift is missing. 

[carusoam]

Very much a pilotless drone...  

But... uses a style of propulsion similar to VTO planes of the past... dual rotors (props) that are counter-rotating...

Trying to remotely pilot it from so far away... would be extra challenging... the latency is measured in minutes, I think...

 

PP musings only... Rich’s link above is a great read...

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

  On 3/26/2021 at 2:55 PM, MooneyMitch said:

This is incredibly exciting!!!

I wonder...... is Ingenuity a helicopter or is it a drone?

I do think “helicopter” gives a better impression though....... super cool regardless!! 

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I thought the phrase drone was simply for pilotless flight. Whether fixed wing, or helicopter style or quad copter style.

[0TreeLemur]

  On 3/27/2021 at 12:30 PM, pmccand said:

...and the Skycrane was technically the first flight on Mars 

 

 

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Nope.  Flight strictly requires a lift vector to extend time aloft.  Think flying squirrels- they "fly" because they generate some lift.   Rockets don't generate lift, only thrust.  Therefore they don't meet the definition of flight.  That's also why they function in the vacuum of space.  They don't fly, so they don't need an atmosphere.

[A64Pilot]

So, a Harrier in hover isn’t flying?

Edited March 27, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Hank]

  On 3/27/2021 at 3:42 PM, A64Pilot said:

So, a Harrier in hover isn’t flying?

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Seems like every rule has an exception. 

[MooneyMitch]

So..... do they really hit a “fly” ball in baseball? 

[carusoam]

Wait a minute...

All those turbine blades are wing shaped...

They use the principles of lift to compress air into the jet’s intake...

Therefore... the Harrier pilot is still flying... while he is using the jet’s propulsion to do the heavy lifting...  

Sound similar to a tilt rotor...

At some point the wing stops producing lift... the machine is still called a plane, and the machine operator is still called a pilot...

In a similar fashion... A pilot using JATO bottles to get off the ground... is still a pilot, not a rocketeer.

PP thoughts only, trying to keep up...

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

  On 3/27/2021 at 4:44 PM, MooneyMitch said:

So..... do they really hit a “fly” ball in baseball? 

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A spinning ball generates lift, called I believe the Magnus effect, so I guess you can “fly” a ball

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/beach.html

A cannon round fired off axis of an aircraft in flight will generate lift on one side and has to be compensated for to hit a target for instance

Edited March 27, 2021 by A64Pilot

[0TreeLemur]

  On 3/27/2021 at 3:42 PM, A64Pilot said:

So, a Harrier in hover isn’t flying?

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No more than a broomstick standing up in your palm is.

[Gagarin]

I think a hydrogen balloon would have been more efficient than the helicopter, and it can stay aloft for much longer time.

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 3/28/2021 at 3:38 AM, Gagarin said:

I think a hydrogen balloon would have been more efficient than the helicopter, and it can stay aloft for much longer time.

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You would need to carry the balloon envelope and the supply of hydrogen all the way to mars, that’s a lot of weight in itself. You would also need the mechanism for filling it and deploying it. This sounds like a lot to haul around. 

[carusoam]

Chances of generating hydrogen on the Martian surface, any?

SpaceX was showing some plans for generating various gasses in the future... for rocketing back off the big rock...

Best regards,

-a-

[Gagarin]

  On 3/28/2021 at 11:49 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

You would need to carry the balloon envelope and the supply of hydrogen all the way to mars, that’s a lot of weight in itself. You would also need the mechanism for filling it and deploying it. This sounds like a lot to haul around. 

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I am thinking of a small balloon folded to a smaller size than the helicopter filled by small H2 tank with remote controlled valve. A balloon weight is definitely less than the helicopter. 

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 3/29/2021 at 2:11 PM, Gagarin said:

I am thinking of a small balloon folded to a smaller size than the helicopter filled by small H2 tank with remote controlled valve. A balloon weight is definitely less than the helicopter. 

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The balloon would take a huge amount of hydrogen and the envelope would need to be huge. Recall the high altitude balloon rides a few years ago. They had a hard time getting much above 100000 Ft which is the density altitude at the surface of Mars, so they would be starting near the limits of what a balloon can do. Without doing the math, I would imagine the balloon would need to be 50 feet in diameter.

There is a place called World View just south of Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson. They fly high altitude balloons. When they are filling a balloon 2-4 tank trucks of hydrogen show up.