Are you going to Sun 'n Fun?

[Hank]

40 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Its the weekend... yay!

Best regards,

-a-

It's gonna be a halfway warm weekend! Yaay again!

I'm going flying tomorrow! Yaaaaay, Me!

Anyone going anywhere in AL, GA or FL panhandle??? Flying with friends is much more fun.

[Shadrach]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:42 PM, carusoam said:

Unit,

What’s the big deal...

You have no fear of the virus...

Other people do...

I get it.

Let’s not be mean to everyone because you don’t live in fear...

It turns into an I’m better than you are argument faster than you can type...

Its as fun as my plane is better than yours...

Kind of takes the fun out of being part of MS...

Its the weekend... yay!

Best regards,

-a-

I have to say that the "I'm better than you" attitude almost never comes from folks who question what authorities are prescribing.  I would say that that sentiment generally comes from those willing to accept the previously mentioned directives, no matter how contradictory.  "What's the big deal" indeed...

If there is a personal lesson for me in all of this, it's that I now understand how large groups of people can be convinced to accept a remarkable amount of intervention in their lives as long as it is done incrementally. Many of those same people will showcase their piety by accusing dissenters of a host of things that have nothing to do with their dissent (anti-science, believing conspiracy theories, political agenda, etc. etc.) Many of those same people will remain silent in the face of elected authorities violating there own mandates or they will sometimes engage in a king of pretzel logic to justify the violation. 

I am in no way saying that there is a nefarious authoritarian movement taking place.  I am saying that I now see how easily those movements have happened in the past. Seemingly good people can be manipulated into "othering" anyone who questions the accepted narrative.  I feel much more comfortable reading content that I disagree with or find offensive (admittedly hard to do) than I do seeing people chastised (however politely) into silence.  What I see here is the shaming of someone because he holds a view currently considered dangerous by some.  He may be pontificating but if he were doing it on the other side of the issue I think there'd be nary a complaint.  

So what's the big deal with people that don't fear the virus? Are those views not allowed to be shared?  What about those that do fear the virus but think that the science behind masking is flawed not to mention how it is practiced by most members of society?  Are those views acceptable for sharing?  Fortunately, I haven't lost anyone to COVID-19 in spite of knowing several over 70 and a few over 80 who've had the disease.  I do know of people who died with COVID-19 that were not long for this world and would have likely been taken by any respiratory infection. Those deaths were counted as COVID-19 deaths in our state.  Is that acceptable information to share?  My aunt was in a horrible auto accident before Christmas.  She was admitted to the hospital with several broken vertebrae.  She tested positive for COVID-19 and was listed as a COVID-19 hospitalization by the state.  I find this an odd policy if one wishes to measure the true impact of a virus on the populace. Is this an acceptable thing to ponder here?  Our county has a population of ~260,000, we currently have 33 (.01274%) people hospitalized county wide, 7 (.002414%) of which are in ICU (never mind my aunt, I am sure that was an isolated incident).  Is it ok to discuss whether this warrants the damage being done to young people that can't attend school?  

Maybe you or whomever has the authority can put together a list of acceptable views on COVID-19.  I know this is not Mooney related, but just about everything is COVID-19 related so it is going to come up.  

 

 

[Scott Dennstaedt, PhD]

I'll be attending, Hangar C, Booth 92.  I'll also be doing 4 presentations at the education forums (dates/times are TBD).  

[Oldguy]

I will be attending and probably be there a couple of days before since we have a house in Lakeland.

Also, like many, I have been WFH since March of 2020. That was the last time I spent a week in the office and the same month I last got my hair cut! Only comments I have gotten from the rest of the executive team is sincere envy since I am the only one with a full head of hair.

Won't get into the whole COVID thing. BT, DT, and donating plasma while I still have antibodies.

[ilovecornfields]

@Shadrach, I appreciate your sharing your views and I’m sorry you feel like you’re the victim here, but I think the issue is a little more complex than you’re letting on.

Most people wearing masks are not “sheeple” just waiting for the government to tell them what to do so they can blindly follow it, but reasonable people trying to make the best of a bad situation while confronting a serious threat and a high degree of uncertainty.

When I studied public health in grad school we spent ONE day on how to communicate with the public during a public health emergency. I’m sure in future classes this will be covered in more detail.

I think it’s unfortunate that the initial guidance people were given was inaccurate and then, not knowing where to get information from, people turned to sources that were more familiar to them - politicians, talk shows, newscasts. Unfortunately, most people covering this outbreak and giving people advice were so unqualified to do so that they gave horrible and often dangerous advice. Not being able to deal with uncertainty and not knowing what to do, people seemed to “pick a side” and stuck to it regardless of what information became available in the future.

I get it. Not knowing what to do is a very uncomfortable feeling and it’s human nature to pick “something” even if that something might not be the right thing. I feel I was a little fortunate because due to my background in medicine and public health I was able to navigate the conflicting information better than most. I even tried to help others on this board, but quickly got attacked with a bunch of politics and personal attacks suggesting I was trying to control people’s lives and didn’t know what I was taking about. That’s around the point I decided to take a vacation from this place and let you guys sort it out on your own.

It saddens me to see how many people were infected and how many people had family or friends that died. Even more had people close to them lose their jobs or go on disability. I was really hoping we would unite to face a common threat but instead we retreated and separated into warring factions - unwilling or unable to listen to the other side and choosing to pick a side rather that dealing with the discomfort of uncertainty and consistently re-evaluating our choices based on the information available at the time.

I’m used to dealing with uncertainty and high stakes. That’s pretty much what emergency medicine is. I never have all the information and it’s constantly changing so I make the best choices I can at the time and if something new becomes available I re-evaluate the situation and sometimes make a different choice. One of the things I constantly ask myself is “what if I’m wrong?” 
 

A famous example of this in medicine is in 2000 when the AHA removed the pulse check from lay rescuer CPR. They acknowledged that the difference between a Type I and a Type II error could literally mean the difference between life and death. If you think someone doesn’t have a pulse and you do CPR on them, there usually isn’t any major damage done. They get angry and often push your hands away but most people who don’t need CPR won’t let you do it to them. On the other hand, if someone doesn’t have a pulse and you don’t do CPR on them they die. Therefore, the consequence of making a type I error is much different than the consequence of a Type II error (death vs. broken ribs) so they essentially said to not even try to figure out if they have a pulse and just do CPR.

I wish people had applied the same principe  to their response to the pandemic. The data on effectiveness of properly worn appropriate masks is pretty clear now, but early on it wasn’t. So, what’s the consequence of wearing a mask when you don’t need to vs. not wearing a mask when you do need to? Inconvenience vs. death? 
 

I don’t like wearing masks. They are annoying. I also don’t like killing people so given the choice I’m fine wearing a mask so that more people don’t die. 
 

I’m not going to try to convince you to wear a mask or change your ways, but maybe if you can consider your choices and what the consequences are if you’re wrong it might be useful in the future. None of us can be right 100% of the time, so every time you make a choice you could be wrong. When there are choices with very asymmetric consequences sometimes you choose the one that results in the least harm, even if you’re don’t know 100% what the right choice is. At least that’s what I try to do. 

[Hector]

I’ll be there. Got my two COVID shots already and will continue to exercise care but looking forward to it already.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RJBrown]

Mask as mandated do nothing. 
another thread where being “politically correct” is ok and not offensive or inflammatory. 
but independent thought is.

Covid was man made. Who participated in its creation?

Covid was also “released” , it didn’t sneak out on its own. Why the bat lies initially?

What are the political results and were they intentional?

Why is the current level of censorship deemed necessary?

who gained from its release?

Answer questions rationally. No personal attacks instead of thought. Don’t simply dismiss the tin foil hat with ridicule, give real answers.

Again why the censorship? Is independent thought a threat? Who is it a threat to? Why?

 

[Hank]

1 minute ago, RJBrown said:

Mask as mandated do nothing. 
another thread where being “politically correct” is ok and not offensive or inflammatory. 
but independent thought is.

Covid was man made. Who participated in its creation?

Covid was also “released” , it didn’t sneak out on its own. Why the bat lies initially?

What are the political results and were they intentional?

Why is the current level of censorship deemed necessary?

who gained from its release?

Answer questions rationally. No personal attacks instead of thought. Don’t simply dismiss the tin foil hat with ridicule, give real answers.

Again why the censorship? Is independent thought a threat? Who is it a threat to? Why?

 

This relates to Sun n Fun how???

[RJBrown]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

This relates to Sun n Fun how???

Your comment underlines mine.

The above Covid comments get no push back if they support the “narrative” those that don’t get questioned.

Covid is an important issue for travel. Travel has been severely restricted, are the reasons in the “narrative” real?

why the censorship 

by you?

[RJBrown]

12 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

@Shadrach, I appreciate your sharing your views and I’m sorry you feel like you’re the victim here, but I think the issue is a little more complex than you’re letting on.

 

First a statement of condescension

Accused Shadrach of acting like a victim when no such feeling was expressed.

then an insult to his intelligence.

Who teaches this behavior and why is it so common.

this type of self righteous arrogant behavior in the first paragraph explains the slant of the whole diatribe and renders it irrelevant.
 

Key the “angry, white, male etc ridicule” helps you to avoid independent thought.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by RJBrown

[ilovecornfields]

@RJBrown

Thabk you for contributing. The QAnon conspiracy stuff always raises the intellectual level of the discussion a notch.

[Skates97]

I have a total of about 300 employees across our dealerships. In my main business office I have eleven employees and just among those eleven they fall all across the spectrum from "This is going to kill all of us" to "This is the dumbest thing and let's get back to life" and everywhere in between. Last fall when we had a couple employees out at a separate location from the main business office with Covid I was sharing some facts from the CDC about transmission and one of them actually said "I don't want to hear about your facts."

We try to keep discussion away from things that divide and cause negative feelings among the staff as we all need to come to work and we all need to work together. People's thoughts and opinions on this subject are strong and by this point well entrenched. If I was to try to convince my staff that I was right all it would do is make some of them upset and I would possibly lose a very good employee over it.

I highly doubt any of us are going to change anyone else's opinions/thoughts about Covid through posting on these forums. Just as I would possibly lose a good employee by engaging in debate in the office (not to mention the lawsuits that could follow in a State like California for creating a hostile work environment) it is likely that if we continue on in debates like this on Mooneyspace that we will lose good members here. Members who would contribute well to the discussion of Mooneys and GA but decide it just isn't worth their time to spend it here.

The original question was if anyone is going to Sun n Fun. I am going to assume @Parker_Woodruff asked because if you were he wanted you to know where to find him and also so he could watch for you and say hello. How about we just answer the question and leave it at that?

If you're going, great! If not and it's because of Covid or whatever other reason then just say so, no need to tell someone else that they are right or wrong for going or not going. I see no need for this, or any other discussion, to devolve into trying to convince anyone about why your facts are more important than any other facts.

As for myself, if I was within about a days worth of flying I would be there, but my Mooney just won't get me across the country in a day. Whether I would have a mask on or not and socially distancing or not I will leave out of the discussion.

[Parker_Woodruff]

12 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

 

The original question was if anyone is going to Sun n Fun. I am going to assume @Parker_Woodruff asked because if you were he wanted you to know where to find him and also so he could watch for you and say hello. How about we just answer the question and leave it at that?

 

Thanks, Richard.  Part of the reason for my answer choices was to gauge what I might expect at the show.  It's no small cash outlay to have a booth and it's good to know that I'll get to see some people there.

I've got a lot of skin in the game, regardless of what people's COVID opinions are and if they go to SnF or not.  I've also got a lot of opinions on the whole matter, but that's not for this board.

I'm a very fortunate small business owner compared to a lot that aren't making it out of this.  I've experienced steady growth (enough so that taking a PPP loan would be dishonest, so I didn't) while many others have had their business swallowed up by big business with big tech resources - they had much greater ability to adapt.

 

[Hank]

5 hours ago, RJBrown said:

Your comment underlines mine.

The above Covid comments get no push back if they support the “narrative” those that don’t get questioned.

Covid is an important issue for travel. Travel has been severely restricted, are the reasons in the “narrative” real?

why the censorship 

by you?

No, my comment simply asked how your diatribe about masks, vaccines, etc., relates to visiting SnF. Prospects of going, risks of attending, your own likelihood of traveling, were not mentioned. But you did manage to denigrate the work of many people, the choices that many people have made / are making [i.e., here's what I think about a non-Mooney topic, any who disagree with me are wrong; but feeling, thinking and saying things like this is a common thing right now].

Rant on all you want, but tie it back into flying, Mooneys and the original question--are you going to SnF? Otherwise it's just an unrelated rant, and too many of them will get you ignored by everyone here.

Note that I have not expressed my opinion of masks, vaccines, pandemics, etc., nor have I expresses an opinion of what you wrote, just that your writing here is unrelated to the rest of the thread or even to general Mooney flying.

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I'm a very fortunate small business owner compared to a lot that aren't making it out of this. 

Yes you are and you’re completely aware of this, as well as being empathetic for others not so fortunate.  

I give you a gold star !!

...... and you’ve got an extremely cool 4 wheeled vehicle to boot !! 

[Parker_Woodruff]

27 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

 

...... and you’ve got an extremely cool 4 wheeled vehicle to boot !! 

yeah and I finally got to drive it after over a week of being parked for weather.  It was definitely a Subaru week around here...

[1964-M20E]

Attendance still to be determined if my engine swap is completed.  I'm still working on OH of the spare engine but real work is getting in the way.

[Danb]

I get my second shot soon, good chance I’ll go, need to get out of Delaware’s cold icy season, although quite mild compared to Erik’s neighborhood