Britain AP with G5 HSI

[Vance Harral]

1 minute ago, Nukemzzz said:

I'm trying to find out if I need to swap out the 209 for something else and want to keep the Brittain Accutrac going.  

When faced with the same choice, we scrapped our old #2 NAV/COM and CDI (KX-170 and KI-201), moved our KX-155 and KI-209 from NAV/COM 1 to NAV/COM 2, and purchased a new GI-106A CDI go go along with our new #1 NAV/COM/GPS.

My opinion is that you should scrap your KI-209 or re-purpose it for the #2 radio, rather than trying to use it with a 430W/530W; and budget for a new/used GPS-capable CDI to go along with your 430W/530W.  The GI-106 is the basic standard, they run about $1500 on eBay.  The KI-209A will work and is cheaper, but my understanding is it requires additional equipment: a mode selector switch and external annunciator.  I know the extra cost of a new CDI is an irritant, but installing one will allow you to use the CDI in GPS mode, which is useful.  And it will in turn allow the Brittain to track a GPS course programmed into your navigator... regardless of whether doing so is strictly legal or not. 

Just to be sure we're all on the same page, my last couple of posts involve the Brittain tracking a simple course via CDI input, which is all I have direct experience with.  There is also discussion in this thread about using Brittain autopilots to track heading via a heading bug on a DG and/or output from a roll steering unit like the GDC31.  Those are separate topics I have interest in, but no direct experience with.

[McMooney]

DEKLIN AIU-900 AUTOPILOT INTERFACE UNIT | Aircraft Spruce 

was in birdy, just going to leave it connected when i switch

[philiplane]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:27 AM, Vance Harral said:

Let's try turning this around.  Why do avionics shops that install GPS navigators and autopilots hold a certified repair shop certificate, and employ certified repairmen?  What authority does that convey, and what can the avionics shop do that an A&P/IA who does not hold such a certificate cannot?

From the perspective of a former part 145 repair station Chief Inspector:

Regarding installations, the only thing a repair station can do, that an A&P cannot do, is perform a 91.411/91.413 static system & transponder check, if those items are part of the installation. Otherwise, not only can an A&P do all of the installation, a repairman cannot do anything that he is not specifically trained for, and the Ops Specs must have airframe ratings appropriate to the airplane. Meaning, if the repair station only holds a Limited Instrument rating to do the IFR certs, the repairmen cannot do any installation work whatsoever, unless he has direct supervision and that person is an A&P who can sign off the work. If you're picking an installation shop that is a repair station, ask them for their ratings. Some will only have Limited Instrument, because that's all they really need. Airframe ratings are less desirable for the shop itself, because of the excessive amount of training and documentation needed to turn a guy off the street into a basic repairman. They're better off just hiring A&P's. 

Repair Stations are the industry's dirty little secret. People assume they are magical, because they're FAA blessed. In truth, a repair station can employ monkeys, provided they can be trained for the individual tasks assigned. The worst work you will ever see comes from repair stations. Because the individual doing the work is not responsible for it, the Chief Inspector is. And he can't catch everything. You often have car stereo techs and computer techs working at avionics shops, because their skills are sort of close to what's needed. And they cost much less to employ than a highly skilled A&P. You will find that repair stations use multiple techs on a job, because they can't find all the right qualities in one person. That means more hands on your plane, more starts and stops, and more chances for errors.

Repair Stations used to need more ratings (instrument, airframe, or power plant) because they opened up boxes and repaired them. Or overhauled an altimeter. Or modified panel structure to accept new stacks. Now, it's mostly just swap in a new part. So they need fewer skills than before, and that's why you see lower quality work every year. But techs that understand how the components work, understand how they work with others. We used to hire ex-Air Force avionics bench technicians, because they had years of schooling and knew electrical theory and components inside and out. Those guys are extremely hard to find now. 

If you want the best possible installation, it will be done by an A&P who is also an avionics technician, and a pilot or CFI.  He might need the services of a repairman to certify the new transponder, but he'll do everything else himself. There are maybe 1 or 2 out of 100 A&P's who have all those credentials, and significant experience. Odds are, they will not be working at a repair station.

[Browncbr1]

I'm late to seeing this thread.  I didn't read all of it.   In short, yes, the G5 drives the brittain beautifully.

It was in the process of going into garmin's install manual, but then Jerry died before the final signoff.. 

In any case, the G5 has some basic setup programs for cessna autopilots and the brittain works the same as one of them with some values adjusted.  You can also just set it up in the custom config.

Here are the documents that were going from Brittain to Garmin just before Jerry died.  If needed, I can post some photos of my G5 screen with the relevant signal levels shown.  iirc, it's 3 degrees per volt max 4.5v, but it's been a long time since I set it up, so just follow the B-12 signal setup values in the attached B12 install manual for your reference.  it is simple to setup if you spend time understanding the system.  the G5 drives the brittain in gpss/vloc mode using heading signals, so you only need accuflite,... accutrack functions are solved by the G5.  i sold my accutrack when i installed the G5s.

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf Brittain B12 Accu-Flight install manual.pdf

Edited January 31, 2022 by Browncbr1

[jeremyc209]

On 1/31/2022 at 8:48 AM, Browncbr1 said:

I'm late to seeing this thread.  I didn't read all of it.   In short, yes, the G5 drives the brittain beautifully.

It was in the process of going into garmin's install manual, but then Jerry died before the final signoff.. 

In any case, the G5 has some basic setup programs for cessna autopilots and the brittain works the same as one of them with some values adjusted.  You can also just set it up in the custom config.

Here are the documents that were going from Brittain to Garmin just before Jerry died.  If needed, I can post some photos of my G5 screen with the relevant signal levels shown.  iirc, it's 3 degrees per volt max 4.5v, but it's been a long time since I set it up, so just follow the B-12 signal setup values in the attached B12 install manual for your reference.  it is simple to setup if you spend time understanding the system.  the G5 drives the brittain in gpss/vloc mode using heading signals, so you only need accuflite,... accutrack functions are solved by the G5.  i sold my accutrack when i installed the G5s.

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdfUnavailable G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdfUnavailable Brittain B12 Accu-Flight install manual.pdfUnavailable

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but does anyone have these files?

[takair]

7 hours ago, jeremyc209 said:

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but does anyone have these files?

I thought I had these, but realized you were responding to this thread and they are no longer attached.  Let’s send an extra note and see if @Browncbr1 will visit and may still have the PDFS.

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, takair said:

Let’s send an extra note and see if @Browncbr1 will visit and may still have the PDFS.

Excellent chance.  @Browncbr1 was last here June 17.

[jeremyc209]

I found these two. Still looking for the full AccuFlite / B-12 Installation Manual.

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf

[Browncbr1]

Hey guys.. haven't been here in a long time, but here are those files.. 

generally, hook it up just like a cessna AP, and just tweek the voltage levels until you like it. 

 

 

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf

Brittain B12 Accu-Flight install manual.pdf

Edited June 30, 2024 by Browncbr1

[takair]

4 hours ago, jeremyc209 said:

I found these two. Still looking for the full AccuFlite / B-12 Installation Manual.

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf 314.33 kB · 2 downloads G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf 58.29 kB · 1 download

I sent a bunch of emails…did you get them?

[jeremyc209]

1 hour ago, takair said:

I sent a bunch of emails…did you get them?

I did but they were all very low resolution and not legible. I checked all the emails, but maybe I missed something? I didn't want to bug you about it.

[jeremyc209]

On 6/29/2024 at 5:37 PM, Browncbr1 said:

Hey guys.. haven't been here in a long time, but here are those files.. 

generally, hook it up just like a cessna AP, and just tweek the voltage levels until you like it. 

 

 

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf 314.33 kB · 5 downloads G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf 58.29 kB · 4 downloads

Brittain B12 Accu-Flight install manual.pdf 912.75 kB · 4 downloads

 

Thanks! Do you use a heading bug with the B-12 and/or will GPSS from the G5 function? I'm new to this and I don't know why the B-11 (AccuTrak) would be needed if you had a G5 running the B-12.

[Browncbr1]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:52 PM, jeremyc209 said:

 

Thanks! Do you use a heading bug with the B-12 and/or will GPSS from the G5 function? I'm new to this and I don't know why the B-11 (AccuTrak) would be needed if you had a G5 running the B-12.

i got rid of my old B-11 years ago when putting in G5s... G5s do it all via heading signal function