Ingress & Egress

[Ken G]

Given what I have read about Mooney's this may be a laughable question, but I have not yet been inside a Mooney so bear with me here...

With a passenger already seated and the seat all the way back, is it possible for a reasonably nimble pilot to step in and get past the passenger and into the left seat? And then also reverse the maneuver to exit.

Or perhaps seat all the way forward and climb behind the passenger seat and step between the seats to get to the left side?

Basis for the question is the need to accommodate a passenger with some mobility/strength limitations who would need a bit of help getting in, and especially out.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[Lance Link]

I’d think not.  But if the passenger is taught how to get in and out and shown how it’s really easy and does not take much strength at all.

[irishpilot]

Depends on the size of the passenger. Regardless, it would be really tight. I'd say a plane with two doors would be more practical for your needs.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[chriscalandro]

This is not a solution you are going to be long term happy with.  Even if it was a child.

[carusoam]

Work with me for a second Ken..!

It takes rethinking how you do things, and what you want to get done...

The last thing you want to tell somebody is the Brand Ce is better for them because they have a challenge... that would suck! 

1) The most comfortable seat in the house... is the back seat...

2) To access the back seat... the front passenger seat gets pushed all the way forwards... leaving lots of space for everyone...

3) Access to the back is easy peasy... compared to any other seat...

4) Next question is usually how to get on the wing...

5) When Mobility is really a challenge, getting on the wing from the front side may work better...

6) Sitting and scooting around...

7) It is all about wanting too... if there is a will, there is a way! 

8) It can be really tough for a person with little strength to go from standing on the wing to sitting in the chair...

 

9) regarding getting in the pilot seat, with somebody in the front passenger seat already... that depends on how big or clumsy the pilot is... expect an ordinary American pilot to be challenged with this... at 170LBs we typically don’t have much strength to allow grace... at 270Lbs there isn’t enough space... even if you have strength and grace...

I have done it a few times... with family.  It is quite close.  Too close. 

10) ask yourself... what can you do from outside the cabin that you can’t get done from inside the cabin... when helping people get in? ( This is normal for all my first time guests...  I’m going to be inside...)

11) Go experiment... first by yourself. Then with your guest...

12) Many Mooney front seats get removed for flights with back seat passengers only...

Think outside the box... Mooneys aren’t boxy like those slower planes...

It can be done... find the way.

I watched 201er help a guy get in the front seat once... low on strength, the passenger had to sit down and slide his butt across the door frame into the seat... that was the coolest flight of that guy’s life... Mike was the pilot sitting in the front left giving direction and help... that is all that was needed.

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

Short answer: NO

I'd look at a Cessna Cardinal. It has two doors, a high wing so your passenger doesn't have to climb up on the wing and then settle down into the airplane, and it sits low to the ground. It's about the easiest ingress and egress of any single engine model. Same engine as a M20J. Available fixed or retractable. Nice flying qualities. Slower, but speed isn't everything.

Skip

[Amelia]

Agility and strength aren’t among this fat old bat’s finest attributes. Not named Grace for good reason. And yet I persevere.
Here’s how I manage the mobility-challenged passenger: 

I usually enlist the aid of an accommodating line crew for Angel flights, or of willing relatives standing by.. Then, all the preliminary chores completed, including removing any chocks surreptitiously placed by aforementioned line guys, I climb in, kneeling on the right seat, swiveling around, and easing over to the left seat. (I said I was clumsy!) The passenger has been invited to leave dignity and decorum behind, but it will be worth it, I promise. I then lower the wing flaps all the way, and have the passenger sit on the wing walk, and using arms and legs as possible,  ooch his or her way, still sitting on the wing, backwards up to the open door. The disabled passenger pushes backwards,  bum-first over the door threshold into the right seat and lift legs into the foot well. The lineman often helps with this operation. They then fold up the wheelchair or walker, tuck it in the baggage hatch, and lock the hatch. I reach over to fasten seatbelts and lock door. And we laugh about not getting in a Mooney so much as putting it on. Egress is the reverse. Turn back toward door, scoot backside onto the wing, swivel around front ways, and ease toward the lowered flaps. Ideally, line folk will be there to unlock baggage hatch, retrieve mobility aids, and help the passenger off the wing.. This often a slow process, but has worked with a lady with a freshly-casted broken leg, a passenger with a knee replacement, a wheelchair-bound tiny teenager with halo-external-fixation pins through new bilateral bone grafts, a totally-blind vet, and several feeble 90-year-olds whose fondest wish was to fly again, just once.
With one such oldster, the ground crew wasn’t there, so gramps managed to back out the door, and stayed put right there on the wing as instructed. I then climbed out, and eased around him, down the wing, fetched his walker out of the baggage hatch, and encouraged him down the wing feet-first, a few inches at a time. I held my arms out and he was able to get his feet under him enough that he could let me hug him to his walker. That dear old man talked nonstop at his nursing home about how he “still had it” flying the high-performance airplane just as he had in The War. And he had!!

 

 

[MooneyMitch]

Part of my passenger guest (s) briefing prior to boarding the Mooney is to provide some information/instruction on how to ingress/egress.  During that dissertation, I throw in the term ..... undignified!!  That essentially lets them know it’s ok for them to do whatever it takes to make it happen and no one will laugh ( yeah, right) .

[jaylw314]

When I've had passengers, I've stressed that the front passenger is responsible for everyone's egress since they control the door.  Kind of like how the airlines ask if you're willing and able to be responsible for the emergency exit.  If there is any doubt in your or your passenger's mind, they should be in the back seat.

[Ken G]

Thanks folks - appreciate the thoughtful responses. Beginning to think through the plane shopping process, to begin in earnest once I polish off the IR in the spring. 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ken G said:

Given what I have read about Mooney's this may be a laughable question, but I have not yet been inside a Mooney so bear with me here...

With a passenger already seated and the seat all the way back, is it possible for a reasonably nimble pilot to step in and get past the passenger and into the left seat? And then also reverse the maneuver to exit.

Or perhaps seat all the way forward and climb behind the passenger seat and step between the seats to get to the left side?

Basis for the question is the need to accommodate a passenger with some mobility/strength limitations who would need a bit of help getting in, and especially out.

Thanks,

Ken

 

If the passenger is going to be a regular traveller why not remove the co-pilots seat and put the passenger in the back seat?

Clarence

[carusoam]

55 minutes ago, Ken G said:

Thanks folks - appreciate the thoughtful responses. Beginning to think through the plane shopping process, to begin in earnest once I polish off the IR in the spring. 

 

seriously,

Consider having the plane to do some of the IR training in...

So much of the finesse of getting the plane to arrive on target speed, altitude, location, and time... has a lot to do with the airplane itself...

This can be much easier to say, than to do... I finished the IR between Mooney ownerships.... using a C172... 

May sound a bit like a high pressure sales technique... but it does make sense...

Transition Training and IR training gets twice the value in the New 2U Mooney!

Getting a Mooney can take months... Getting the IR can happen much quicker than that...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy....

Best regards,

-a-

[anthonydesmet]

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

Work with me for a second Ken..!

It takes rethinking how you do things, and what you want to get done...

The last thing you want to tell somebody is the Brand Ce is better for them because they have a challenge... that would suck! 

1) The most comfortable seat in the house... is the back seat...

2) To access the back seat... the front passenger seat gets pushed all the way forwards... leaving lots of space for everyone...

3) Access to the back is easy peasy... compared to any other seat...

4) Next question is usually how to get on the wing...

5) When Mobility is really a challenge, getting on the wing from the front side may work better...

6) Sitting and scooting around...

7) It is all about wanting too... if there is a will, there is a way! 

8) It can be really tough for a person with little strength to go from standing on the wing to sitting in the chair...

 

9) regarding getting in the pilot seat, with somebody in the front passenger seat already... that depends on how big or clumsy the pilot is... expect an ordinary American pilot to be challenged with this... at 170LBs we typically don’t have much strength to allow grace... at 270Lbs there isn’t enough space... even if you have strength and grace...

I have done it a few times... with family.  It is quite close.  Too close. 

10) ask yourself... what can you do from outside the cabin that you can’t get done from inside the cabin... when helping people get in? ( This is normal for all my first time guests...  I’m going to be inside...)

11) Go experiment... first by yourself. Then with your guest...

12) Many Mooney front seats get removed for flights with back seat passengers only...

Think outside the box... Mooneys aren’t boxy like those slower planes...

It can be done... find the way.

I watched 201er help a guy get in the front seat once... low on strength, the passenger had to sit down and slide his butt across the door frame into the seat... that was the coolest flight of that guy’s life... Mike was the pilot sitting in the front left giving direction and help... that is all that was needed.

Best regards,

-a-

I’ve done it this way also and I just took the right front seat out and left it out.  More comfortable with more room for the less mobile person and like @jaylw314stated I was concerned with my ability to respond as the most fit and able person in the plane. If it’s just you and the other person without a lot of bags and cg worries this might work.

 But I also like the 177RG idea since that was the absolute most comfortable airplane I have ever owned.

[mooniac15u]

The simple solution is to buy one of the new Mooney Ultras with a second door.

[carusoam]

Now that is thinking outside the box....   ^ ^^^ ^

 

Looks like there is one Acclaim left at the factory... 

How special is your passenger?

For about 700AMU or so, give or take... the new Acclaim does come with two front doors... one on each side...

If interested, we can put you in touch with the big guy on the inside... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

Im going to say yes. If you are skinny, and flexible, it is easy. I have done it with plenty of friends who weren't patient enough to wait for the preflight. Its not that hard in my opinion. I am young and nimble however.

[kmyfm20s]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:35 AM, M20Doc said:

If the passenger is going to be a regular traveller why not remove the co-pilots seat and put the passenger in the back seat?

Clarence

We do this all the time and love it! I like it so much I don’t put the co-pilot seat back in until I need to.

[Lance Link]

I’d say if your px can get up from a basic chair with arms and with their feet on about a six inch stool, and of course can get on the wing easily enough they will be fine.  PM me if you want and I will describe the procedure.

[KLRDMD]

Air stair door. As seen on a Cessna P337. Turbocharged, pressurized and air conditioned along with a backup engine just in case. Available for the same price as a decent "J" model Mooney.

[Tx_Aggie]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:35 AM, M20Doc said:

If the passenger is going to be a regular traveller why not remove the co-pilots seat and put the passenger in the back seat?

Clarence

I’ve done this after seeing it on a fellow mooniac’s 231 in south Texas. Works very well. 

[PT20J]

19 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said:

I’ve done this after seeing it on a fellow mooniac’s 231 in south Texas. Works very well. 

It can still be hard for some to climb into and especially out of the back seat of my J because it sits about 5 deg nose high on the ground. Five degrees doesn’t sound like much, but it’s a significant up hill from the back seat.