Landing Height System for Mooney

[exM20K]

Add me to the list of satisfied customers.

My landings are much more consistent post-installation, especially at night.  More than anything else, the "1 (Foot)" callouts remind me to hold the plane off and finish the landing with the yoke all the way into my gut. High-workload or high-stress landings make it likely for me to "finish flying" before the plane is stopped, which is obviously not good.

-dan

[JimB]

Maybe I missed it in this thread. Are any of the GPS units reporting altitude as AGL based on a terrain database or are all of them reporting MSL? 

[Microkit]

9 minutes ago, JimB said:

Maybe I missed it in this thread. Are any of the GPS units reporting altitude as AGL based on a terrain database or are all of them reporting MSL? 

 

The GPS callouts are MSL, this is because the GPS sends as MSL in the Aviation Output message.

As mentioned previously, the main objective of having a GPS feed is the speed threshold.  The extra 4 announcements that are based on GPS altitude are really a by-product, and there is a dedicated option within the WiFi setup of the unit to mute these 4 callouts.  

The main function of the LHS unit is laser-based AGL starting 200’, then of course the added value of the audio based Gear Warning System 

[JimB]

3 minutes ago, Microkit said:

 

The GPS callouts are MSL, this is because the GPS sends as MSL in the Aviation Output message.

As mentioned previously, the main objective of having a GPS feed is the speed threshold.  The extra 4 announcements that are based on GPS altitude are really a by-product, and there is a dedicated option within the WiFi setup of the unit to mute these 4 callouts.  

The main function of the LHS unit is laser-based AGL starting 200’, then of course the added value of the audio based Gear Warning System 

Sounds good and that is what I thought but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Sounded like it might be possible from reading the install manual but I didn't know of any GPS units reporting data in AGL. 

Guess I should ask since I am a Mooney CB, any coupon codes or discounts? 

[Microkit]

2 minutes ago, JimB said:

Sounds good and that is what I thought but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Sounded like it might be possible from reading the install manual but I didn't know of any GPS units reporting data in AGL. 

Guess I should ask since I am a Mooney CB, any coupon codes or discounts? 

 

Some newer GPS may have an AGL output message based on their internal terrain database and current location; we don't think it will be in the Aviation Output message itself, but rather a new message format.  Sorry Jim, unfortunately there are no coupon codes at this time. 

 

[JimB]

10 minutes ago, Microkit said:

 

Sorry Jim, unfortunately there are no coupon codes at this time. 

 

No worries. The price is actually very reasonable. Just thought I would ask 

[larryb]

RS232 output of the Aera 796 will report AGL.

[Tom 4536]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:46 AM, Microkit said:

The main function of the LHS unit is laser-based AGL starting 200’, then of course the added value of the audio based Gear Warning System 

My lowest callout on my M20K is at 5ft AGL. Any way to get callouts at lower AGL? Maybe 2 and 1ft AGL?

[dfurst]

22 minutes ago, Tom 4536 said:

My lowest callout on my M20K is at 5ft AGL. Any way to get callouts at lower AGL? Maybe 2 and 1ft AGL?

You should not go in to settings, go the system page and deselect certified.  If you do this it will count all the way down to 1 foot, but this is for experimental aircraft only. 

[Pinecone]

Hmm, mine calls out 2 and 1.

AFAIK the settings were not tweaked. 

[GeeBee]

8 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Hmm, mine calls out 2 and 1.

AFAIK the settings were not tweaked. 

They were not set either. The installer selects "Certified" or not. It's in the manual.

[toto]

39 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Hmm, mine calls out 2 and 1.

AFAIK the settings were not tweaked. 

Yeah, unfortunately callouts below 5 feet are only available for experimental. It sounds like your unit was incorrectly set. 

https://landingheight.com/faq/

[Pinecone]

Hmm, I did not set it this way.  

[Danb]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Hmm, mine calls out 2 and 1.

AFAIK the settings were not tweaked. 

So does mine..

[LANCECASPER]

3 minutes ago, Danb said:

So does mine..

Same here. I think that was a result of a software upgrade. Mine is not set up as Experimental.

[toto]

Would be good for @microkit to weigh in.

[Microkit]

The LHS unit is shipped with the default settings to allow 2 & 1 to be announced.  

Some installers go on the LHS unit WiFi pages and click on the button, so 2 & 1 are not announced.   We are aware that some users go back into the LHS menu (details available within the online guide) and disable that mode, so they can hear 2 & 1.  I guess they are reading between the lines.  

Here is a 3 years old (Nov 2020) reply on the same question with more info.    

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/36596-landing-height-system-for-mooney/?do=findComment&comment=627163  

[Pinecone]

Is there a reason that the 1 and 2 foot call outs are not allowed?

[dfurst]

Just now, Pinecone said:

Is there a reason that the 1 and 2 foot call outs are not allowed?

FAA rules.  LHS is limited to 5 foot callout per the NORSEE approval for certified aircraft. What an owner does? well...

[Pinecone]

Any idea WHY?  Or just an FAA arbitrary number?

[Microkit]

No practical or safety reason at all, hence the limitation is only mentioned in the installation guide rather than the approval letter/certification itself.  We are the first one to use LIDAR technology instead of Radar Altimeter for height callout during landing, and its on NORSEE rather than STC, allowing us to offer it at a much cheaper price point compared to other STC equipment.  

[Will.iam]

I finally got my LHS installed this last annual. First time coming to home airport it was at night and the airplane had been stuck in annual for over a month due to holidays and backlog of customers ahead of me. Anyway i know i have a drop off at the north end but did not realize how much until i had the system say 200ft then next announcement was 10ft! A little unnerving but I’m getting used to it quickly. A nice side effect is landing to the north we have a 400ft grass overrun to the start of the runway.  While not horrible, i prefer not to subject my gear to undue hardship so i aim to land past the concrete threshold. To insure i wouldn’t accidentally land early i would be a few feet above the ground to insure not to contact it as i didn’t know my exact hight. With the LHS system i can skim much lower hearing the 1 ft callout and thus land much closer to the runway threshold without fear of landing early in the grass. I also love the check gear warning that will only come on if i do not have the gear down prior to 200ft thus eliminating any false warnings about the gear. 

[Microkit]

Thank you for the feedback, Will.  

One note to keep in mind to all; whenever the airplane comes out of annual or any wiring/panel related maintenance; make sure you test the Gear Warning System again, the best test is to do a low-approach with the gear up, then perform a go-around, the unit announces “Check Landing Gear” every 4 seconds until a positive rate of climb is registered, or the gear is extended.    

We did get a report from a pilot who handed over his airplane for a GPS/EFIS upgrade, the shop temporarily removed part of the panel along with some wiring to assist with their installation and when they put it back together, they ended up connecting the GWS wire to a permanent +VE source; unaware of its functionality or why it was there in the first place; this effectively made the LHS unit sees the gear as always down.  

He only found out about it when he wanted to demonstrate the GWS feature to another pilot, so we asked him to troubleshoot the location of the GWS wire after he told us the airplane just got a huge panel upgrade.   Apparently; system failures and issues after maintenance is a hot topic at the moment.  

It is a good idea to have an “After Maintenance checklist” with first flight to be around the pattern and check all critical systems such as the Gear Warning System, autopilots and such.  

[hammdo]

That is an excellent idea. I’ll need to do that since mine just came out of annual…

-Don

[Pinecone]

My airplane is undergoing a major avionics upgrade.  But the shop has installed LHSs, so SHOULD know how to hook it up, but I will check.