Why not buy a Bravo?

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

Don, I am curious why you say a GFC500 outperforms a GFC700. I dont have the time you have in a GFC500 by now, as my time is now only about 10 hrs in the GFC500, but I am pretty confident I have more time with the GFC700  and G1000NXI than you and would like to know why you feel the GFC500 outperforms it. The YD is cool for sure but possibly not worth the trade off for the less stout servos. Worth the option yes, 

Ray and I have flown together in his plane and I have had a fantastic late model Bravo with all the "updates" (brakes, panel, etc) for over 5 years. Rays Ultra is a fantastic plane. Faster, A/C, better efficiency, modern electronics, better AP and the list goes on.

Dont get me wrong, When I sold the Bravo it was by far the best example of a Bravo for the $ at the time, I made sure of that. It was not a G1000NXI with a GFC700 AP Ultra Acclaim, however. 

You said...

The Acclaim did have the GFC 700, but the GFC 500 now outperforms it.

"

 

Does the GFC 700 with the NXi have ESP and LVL?  I couldn't find it in the manual.  Is so, then they have equal capability.  I'm not sure if the servos on the NXi are brushless.   If so, then equal capability.  If not, then heavier on the NXi and possibility more of a maintenance problem down the road due to its slip clutch complexity that is not required on the GSA 28 brushless servo of the GFC 500.

[mike_elliott]

Ah, you have a point about the LVL and envelope protection, features that will be available when the autoland is added to the G1000 NXI suite. The Blue button has been high on the sales guys lips to Mooney (its in their court) for quite some time. All it takes is Mooney sending Garmin some$$  

I am not sure, but believe the servos are brushless like on the GFC600. Ill check with Don Maxwell to see for sure.

Once Autoland is available, and the GW increase is done (see info from Johnny Pallock in this months Mooney Flyer,), there might not be any compelling reasons to consider a more expensive Cirrus. 

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Ah, you have a point about the LVL and envelope protection, features that will be available when the autoland is added to the G1000 NXI suite. The Blue button has been high on the sales guys lips to Mooney (its in their court) for quite some time. All it takes is Mooney sending Garmin some$$  

I am not sure, but believe the servos are brushless like on the GFC600. Ill check with Don Maxwell to see for sure.

Once Autoland is available, and the GW increase is done (see info from Johnny Pallock in this months Mooney Flyer,), there might not be any compelling reasons to consider a more expensive Cirrus. 

Nice that the new CEO is actually a Mooney owner (from the Mooney Flyer).

Looks like he owns an Acclaim.

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N705SE

[Niko182]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Nice that the new CEO is actually a Mooney owner (from the Mooney Flyer).

Looks like he owns an Acclaim.

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N705SE

Its good to see they are trying to make something people are looking for. If they could make an STC for a stronger landing gear and VG's stock to lower the stall speed at gross, I could see a gross weight increase as a real possibility for the LB mooneys.

[aviatoreb]

10 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Nice that the new CEO is actually a Mooney owner (from the Mooney Flyer).

Looks like he owns an Acclaim.

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N705SE

Well that is fantastically interesting!  I was not aware that Mooney was back in business. And they seem to have innovative and significant plans!

[aviatoreb]

7 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Ah, you have a point about the LVL and envelope protection, features that will be available when the autoland is added to the G1000 NXI suite. The Blue button has been high on the sales guys lips to Mooney (its in their court) for quite some time. All it takes is Mooney sending Garmin some$$  

I am not sure, but believe the servos are brushless like on the GFC600. Ill check with Don Maxwell to see for sure.

Once Autoland is available, and the GW increase is done (see info from Johnny Pallock in this months Mooney Flyer,), there might not be any compelling reasons to consider a more expensive Cirrus. 

Autoland is coming to Mooney?!

[mike_elliott]

13 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Autoland is coming to Mooney?!

Mooney was working on this a couple of years ago with Garmin and the NXI. Where that program is now is anyones' guess, but suffice it to say, it was on Mooneys' road map as an answer to the 'chute. 

[carusoam]

Time to start a new attribute list for the next version of the Acclaim / Ovation...

1) Increased UL

2) Stronger, impact absorbing, landing gear... to go with 3...

3) Chute... not as much of a requirement if you have 4...

4) LVL and auto land buttons... (Needed Yesterday!)  

JSP is showing an NYC address...  That is close to NJ!

Best regards,

-a-
 

[Patrick Horan]

If they increase the useful load on the Acclaim, you think that will transfer over to the Bravo series? 

[mike_elliott]

yes

[gsxrpilot]

14 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Nice that the new CEO is actually a Mooney owner (from the Mooney Flyer).

Looks like he owns an Acclaim.

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N705SE

Yep, and he goes to SWTA for maintenance. 

[carusoam]

Somebody that has this much financial fortitude, and enjoys flying Mooneys...

Has got to be good!

https://www.blackstone.com/people/jonathan-pollack/

Best regards,

-a-

 

[xcrmckenna]

My 201 would look really good with a glass panel in your hangar.... It would definitely enjoy trading out cold winter months in Oregon for nice Florida weather.... That would make my transition into a Bravo much easier:) But going from an Acclaim to a J would be crazy talk....


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[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

On 8/29/2020 at 4:31 PM, MooneyBe said:

I was in the Bravo market for several months. I can tell you that although some languish, the 'good' ones are scooped up in <1 week. To your point, there are a lot of red/yellow flags to look for when diligencing a Bravo.. many of the ones that seem to sit (probably/possibly) have some of those flags when you get into the logs.

I was fortunate to have recently found one of those “good” ones. Made an offer sight unseen within about 15 minutes of it being listed on controller!

[Bravoman]

3 hours ago, 231-FLYER said:

I was fortunate to have recently found one of those “good” ones. Made an offer sight unseen within about 15 minutes of it being listed on controller!

Nick good to hear from you. Hope all is well. Where is your new plane from? Coincidentally, I am putting mine up for sale as well, along with my Saratoga. Buying a PA 46.  Never thought I would be doing that, but such is life! 

 The bravo is fabulous. You’ll love it.  

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Hey Frank! The airplane is currently in Washington State. The plane and I will eventually both be back on the east coast. At last check I was #68 on the hanger wait list back in Florida. Send me pics of the new plane when you get it!

Edited February 13, 2021 by 231-FLYER

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, Bravoman said:

Nick good to hear from you. Hope all is well. Where is your new plane from? Coincidentally, I am putting mine up for sale as well, along with my Saratoga. Buying a PA 46.  Never thought I would be doing that, but such is life! 

 The bravo is fabulous. You’ll love it.  

You'll love the pressurization in the PA46. The air conditioning and de-ice are great to have also. I've been in partnerships on a new Mirage and Meridian.  On the piston version (Mirage) Piper is asking a lot of that engine (twin turbos, pressurization, etc) . I wish Lycoming and Piper would have teamed up on an "wet-head" bravo version of the TIO-540-AE1A engine. If there was such a thing I'd be flying one today. We owned the Mirage from 2000-2003 during the crankshaft service bulletins and the engine had to come out a couple of times. The partnership was completely compatible and he had been named for a year on a '96 Bravo that I owned. We took on a third partner to go to the Meridian in 2003 and the airplane was fantastic, although range was limited. (The third partner was unreasonable and eventually the partnership was dissolved and the airplane sold and I came back to Mooneys) SimCom down in Vero Beach did the training annually on both airplanes and it was excellent. If you can make the stretch to the P46T (Turboprop) once the investment is made, the operating costs aren't much different.

[carusoam]

Some MSers have transitioned from Long Body to P46T...

With pressure and turbine, it is the next logical step...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bravoman]

13 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

You'll love the pressurization in the PA46. The air conditioning and de-ice are great to have also. I've been in partnerships on a new Mirage and Meridian.  On the piston version (Mirage) Piper is asking a lot of that engine (twin turbos, pressurization, etc) . I wish Lycoming and Piper would have teamed up on an "wet-head" bravo version of the TIO-540-AE1A engine. If there was such a thing I'd be flying one today. We owned the Mirage from 2000-2003 during the crankshaft service bulletins and the engine had to come out a couple of times. The partnership was completely compatible and he had been named for a year on a '96 Bravo that I owned. We took on a third partner to go to the Meridian in 2003 and the airplane was fantastic, although range was limited. (The third partner was unreasonable and eventually the partnership was dissolved and the airplane sold and I came back to Mooneys) SimCom down in Vero Beach did the training annually on both airplanes and it was excellent. If you can make the stretch to the P46T (Turboprop) once the investment is made, the operating costs aren't much different.

Lance, I have big time second thoughts about parting with the Mooney. It has been such a great plane. A real pilot’s plane. I have never enjoyed flying flying anything as much.  My decision is  based upon the practicalities of my  situation. I have two planes and am trying to get myself in a position to retire in the next couple years down to St augustine where I have only one hangar. The Mirage seems to be the best of both worlds between the Mooney and the PA32, plus it has Pressurization and FIKI and cabin space that will allow us to travel the way we want with our pets and friends. When we retire we really want to try to use the heck out of the plane to explore the nooks and crannies of the US, Islands, etc. 

I am actually going to be doing my transition training in Vero. In a perfect world I would love to have a Meridian or TBM, but who wouldn’t!

Edited February 14, 2021 by Bravoman

[affricate]

On 8/29/2020 at 8:13 PM, carusoam said:

Keep in mind,

There are individual airplanes that are in the market that look good in pictures that may have a slightly checkered past...
 

There is a Bravo that shows up every now and then that had some major surgery on its wing...

It showed up again for sale yesterday...

This may be important if you are a no Ndh kind of guy...
 

Reading logs is a great idea before sending planes for PPIs... search of N numbers is always interesting...

 

So...

To answer the main question of this thread...

There are no reasons to not buy a bravo...  Who thought that was a good title name?

There are plenty of good reasons to buy a Bravo...

Buying the right Bravo isn’t that hard...

There are plenty of reasons to not buy the wrong Bravo...

PP thoughts only, a big fan of LBs...

Go Mooney, Bravo!
 

Best regards,

-a-

When I purchased my Bravo, I knew I had to get Edison to reseal the tanks and get the high time engine overhauled. Other than that, my Bravo is practical, fast and safe. My main purpose for the purchase was for XC to see my folks in Louisiana on my terms. Go Bravo!