Looking for tips on what to use for airframe lubrication.

[bmcconnaha]

After much searching, including some here on MS, I still can’t figure out a good lubricant that meets MIL-L-7870 (low temperature general oil) Aeroshell fluid 3 seemed to be the preferred, but not finding it easily.  Same with with rapco 363.  Is there an other fluids that people are using?  This appears to be used for things like bellcranks and trim assist bungee and attach points.  Also, what are your other preferred lubricants, grease etc? Thanks.  

[PT20J]

Here are the products that currently meet the spec., but I think any light oil would work. I use 3-in1 or LPS 2. Curious what others use. 

Skip

 

[PT20J]

Skygeek has Royco 363 in quart cans.

[bmcconnaha]

20 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Skygeek has Royco 363 in quart cans.

Thanks for the info.  I was hoping to find something spruce carries.  I have a big order going in, but they are either out of stock or don’t carry it.  So, I guess I’m going the sky geek route 

[MB65E]

This stuff is the best!!!!

Its kinda hard to find. I really like it.  Zipchem D5263. Kragen sells it too. 
https://zipchem.com/Pages/optional-backgrounds/d5263.htm

smells great too!!
-Matt

[bmcconnaha]

Just now, MB65E said:

This stuff is the best!!!!

Its kinda hard to find. I really like it.  Zipchem D5263. Kragen sells it too. 
https://zipchem.com/Pages/optional-backgrounds/d5263.htm

smells great too!!
-Matt

I was actually looking at the zip chem stuff, this is the one that meets the requirements from the MX manual.  
https://zipchem.com/Pages/optional-backgrounds/d5261.htm

[MB65E]

Just now, bmcconnaha said:

I was actually looking at the zip chem stuff, this is the one that meets the requirements from the MX manual.  
https://zipchem.com/Pages/optional-backgrounds/d5261.htm

Dang,  5261 is correct! I goofed the link!

63 didn’t have the matching Mil spec. 5261 does!

good stuff 

-Matt

[EricJ]

9 hours ago, PT20J said:

Here are the products that currently meet the spec., but I think any light oil would work. I use 3-in1 or LPS 2. Curious what others use. 

Skip

 

 

Tri-Flow, LPS2, Mouse Milk, etc...

[bmcconnaha]

10 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Tri-Flow, LPS2, Mouse Milk, etc...

I was going to use LPS2, but I’ve read it doesn’t meet the lubrication requirements.  I have a bunch in my hangar too...

[GeeBee]

Yep, Zipchem makes Mil-7870 in aerosol, I got it through Skygeek.

 

[M20F]

The original MAPA link doesn’t appear to work but

”MAPA log has article from Jerry Manthay advising not to use tri-flow on the control hinges as they are sealed and it has solvents in them that can cause the seal to rupture. It had some other general lube information as well.”

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/5293-lets-talk-lubrication/

[PT20J]

6 hours ago, M20F said:

The original MAPA link doesn’t appear to work but

”MAPA log has article from Jerry Manthay advising not to use tri-flow on the control hinges as they are sealed and it has solvents in them that can cause the seal to rupture. It had some other general lube information as well.”

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/5293-lets-talk-lubrication/

Triflow is not the best choice for control bearings which are ball bearings and need a more viscous lubricant as specified in the maintenance manual. From my earlier post under Let’s Talk Lubrication:

OK, here’s the scoop on control bearings:

My M20J IPC does not list the bearings but only the next higher assemblies which are brackets with the bearings pressed into them. I confirmed with Dan Reisland at LASAR that the aileron, elevator and rudder bearings are PN3A. (I did not confirm, but believe that the flaps use PN4A bearings).

I confirmed with Ivette Prerez at RBC Bearings that they are NOT sealed. 

Therefore, the Mooney Maintenance Manual is correct and the bearings should be oiled with a light machine oil annually/100 hrs.

Skip

[bmcconnaha]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

Triflow is not the best choice for control bearings which are ball bearings and need a more viscous lubricant as specified in the maintenance manual. From my earlier post under Let’s Talk Lubrication:

OK, here’s the scoop on control bearings:

My M20J IPC does not list the bearings but only the next higher assemblies which are brackets with the bearings pressed into them. I confirmed with Dan Reisland at LASAR that the aileron, elevator and rudder bearings are PN3A. (I did not confirm, but believe that the flaps use PN4A bearings).

I confirmed with Ivette Prerez at RBC Bearings that they are NOT sealed. 

Therefore, the Mooney Maintenance Manual is correct and the bearings should be oiled with a light machine oil annually/100 hrs.

Skip

I have a gallon coming from skygeek (royco 363) of course my a&p fought me on that a little with wanting to use LPS2, but I’m a pretty by the book guy and went with the oil that meets the Mil spec spelled out in the MM.  now we’re on to discussing greases.  Plane is new to me, and I just found the last two annual receipts.  575 dollars each, with no notes.  So, I’m assuming they are worth the paper they were written on, nothing more. I’ll be lubing the entire aircraft per the MM.  

[tmo]

So, humor me this - some maintenance guys I know make a liquid out of 100LL and AeroShell Grease 22 (they love this stuff) and use this for where they can't easily stuff the AS22 in. They say the liquid flows where it needs to, the avgas evaporates, the AS22 stays and lubricates. Acceptable, despicable? Would using JetA1 / naphta as the carrier be better / worse?

[Cody Stallings]

18 hours ago, tmo said:

So, humor me this - some maintenance guys I know make a liquid out of 100LL and AeroShell Grease 22 (they love this stuff) and use this for where they can't easily stuff the AS22 in. They say the liquid flows where it needs to, the avgas evaporates, the AS22 stays and lubricates. Acceptable, despicable? Would using JetA1 / naphta as the carrier be better / worse?

That sounds like a lot of work for lack luster performing Lubricant.

Aeroshell Grease isn’t exactly(any of them) aren’t that great for lubrications, but they do a fine job keeping moisture out of certain areas because of the Microgel an Clay.

Aeroshell is the prolific Name in aviation line because there are only a hand full of competitors. Not a lot of companies want to do the testing an go through the approval processes to get their product approved for aviation use, an I can’t blame them.

That being said ,cutting a lack luster grease with 100LL makes no sense to me, why not just get something that flows that fits your needs.

Cause when the 100LL evaporates, it’s not AS22 anymore anyway.

There are some great purpose formulated grease out there. Lucas makes some good stuff, there are some great Lithium greases out there as well.

Couple yrs ago I had a Aeroshell Rep come to my shop to witness a tear down to inspection of a propeller that had 690hrs SNEW (King Air F90 Propeller) that had been serviced with #6. The propeller literally eat itself up from the inside.

So the Rep takes samples of the grease(broken down grease aka Oil) out of the propeller back to Houston for testing. A month later we get the report that the grease met the Milspec.

Come to find out the milspec that we all hold to a high standard was so broad that anything between the consistency of Bondo an water was in compliance.

I feel like anything that Rotates at high speed where heat could build should have a superior type grease.

An unfortunately haven’t seen a Aeroshell Offering that Meets that.

 

Rant an Bitching Complete now.
 

[xcrmckenna]

I have a gallon coming from skygeek (royco 363) of course my a&p fought me on that a little with wanting to use LPS2, but I’m a pretty by the book guy and went with the oil that meets the Mil spec spelled out in the MM.  now we’re on to discussing greases.  Plane is new to me, and I just found the last two annual receipts.  575 dollars each, with no notes.  So, I’m assuming they are worth the paper they were written on, nothing more. I’ll be lubing the entire aircraft per the MM.  

Why did you go with the Royco and not the Zip 5261? I’m trying to decide what I should get since my mechanic uses triflow.


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[tmo]

@Cody Stallings thank you for that, sincerely.

To put things into context, they do this for places I'd be putting in a light machine oil or spray some local version of TRI-FLOW, so no high speed / high temp applications.

Would you care to share your list of preferred lubricants to compliment EricJ's list of lubrication requirements from the SMM? I know "AeroShell" and perhaps "Mobil" are going down the path of least resistance, but if there are better options that work, I'm sure more people than just me would be very interested. Especially coming from people who know their stuff.

[bmcconnaha]

7 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

Why did you go with the Royco and not the Zip 5261? I’m trying to decide what I should get since my mechanic uses triflow.


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Because I read zip is repackaged royco, and your paying quite a premium to get it in aerosol. I’ll use an precision oil can or needle oiler, and it will be fine

[bmcconnaha]

9 hours ago, Cody Stallings said:

That sounds like a lot of work for lack luster performing Lubricant.

Aeroshell Grease isn’t exactly(any of them) aren’t that great for lubrications, but they do a fine job keeping moisture out of certain areas because of the Microgel an Clay.

Aeroshell is the prolific Name in aviation line because there are only a hand full of competitors. Not a lot of companies want to do the testing an go through the approval processes to get their product approved for aviation use, an I can’t blame them.

That being said ,cutting a lack luster grease with 100LL makes no sense to me, why not just get something that flows that fits your needs.

Cause when the 100LL evaporates, it’s not AS22 anymore anyway.

There are some great purpose formulated grease out there. Lucas makes some good stuff, there are some great Lithium greases out there as well.

Couple yrs ago I had a Aeroshell Rep come to my shop to witness a tear down to inspection of a propeller that had 690hrs SNEW (King Air F90 Propeller) that had been serviced with #6. The propeller literally eat itself up from the inside.

So the Rep takes samples of the grease(broken down grease aka Oil) out of the propeller back to Houston for testing. A month later we get the report that the grease met the Milspec.

Come to find out the milspec that we all hold to a high standard was so broad that anything between the consistency of Bondo an water was in compliance.

I feel like anything that Rotates at high speed where heat could build should have a superior type grease.

An unfortunately haven’t seen a Aeroshell Offering that Meets that.

 

Rant an Bitching Complete now.
 

I ordered mobile 28 (landing gear, plessey actuator etc) and mobile SHC100 (wheel bearings).  The MM specifically calls for aero shell 7 in a few spots such as the jack screw, so I’ll stick with that there.  
both 7 and 33 meet the Mil spec for the certain spots, i am still determine which one I like better.  They can’t be mixed, so I will have to clean any grease off whatever I put 33 on, if I go that way 

[PT20J]

Ah, grease ... again.

First, what is grease? Grease is just oil and a thickener. There are two basic classes of thickeners: clay and metallic soaps. Clay thickeners are older and soaps -- lithium is the most common -- are newer. The oil can be mineral (older) or synthetic (newer). Generally, greases should not be mixed as some oils are not compatible with others, and some thickeners are not compatible with others. To add to the confusion the MIL-PRF-23827 -- a very common grease --  specification describes Type I (lithium soap thickened) and Type II (clay thickened) and Type I and Type II greases are are NOT compatible.

Why do we replace grease? There are three main reasons: 1) Water or solvents may wash out the grease. 2) Dirt may contaminate the grease 3) The oil can leach out over time and leave mostly thickener with poor lubrication properties.

What do the Mil Specs mean? As Cody pointed out above, not that much -- the specs are pretty broad. However, greases that meet the specs and are on the military Qualified Products List at least meet some specs consistently and are qualified for government procurement. If they are not on the QPL but claim to meet the spec, you don't know for sure. They might well meet the spec, but this has not been verified independently.

Is the Maintenance Manual always correct? Well usually, and it is always the place to start. However, I note that my M20J manual specifies grease for the trim chains. Does anyone put grease on their bicycle chain? Chains have rollers that grease can not penetrate. Oil is a better choice. Mooney specifies Tri-flow for the rod ends. I called RBC that owns Heim and they told me the recommended lube is MIL-PRF-23827 grease. That only makes sense for rod ends that have zerks. It's not going to get into the zerkless rod ends on Mooney's very well. Tri-flow -- which Mooney specifies -- is likely a good choice because it is a very light mineral oil with Teflon that attracts a minimum of dirt which is the nemesis of exposed rod ends.

Skip

 

[PT20J]

12 hours ago, bmcconnaha said:

I ordered mobile 28 (landing gear, plessey actuator etc) and mobile SHC100 (wheel bearings).  The MM specifically calls for aero shell 7 in a few spots such as the jack screw, so I’ll stick with that there.  
both 7 and 33 meet the Mil spec for the certain spots, i am still determine which one I like better.  They can’t be mixed, so I will have to clean any grease off whatever I put 33 on, if I go that way 

FWIW, I heard from a couple of sources that Mobilgrease was better that Aeroshell. I bought a tube of Mobilgrease 28 and put it on the shelf. When I went to use it, it had leaked oil out of the tube all over the shelf. I decided to go back to Aeroshell which has never done that.

Skip

[Cody Stallings]

23 hours ago, PT20J said:

FWIW, I heard from a couple of sources that Mobilgrease was better that Aeroshell. I bought a tube of Mobilgrease 28 and put it on the shelf. When I went to use it, it had leaked oil out of the tube all over the shelf. I decided to go back to Aeroshell which has never done that.

Skip

The Newer Aeroshell #6 has the same problem.

Its very hard to keep it in a propeller or a tune as it separates so quickly