TCC Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Life is changing and we need a plane. We’re relocating to SJT. Our most common trip will be AUS, 162NM. Our worst case trip is to ART, 1382NM + reserves. The most common trip will be 169NM 12x annually with 1 pax who’s weight is .7 FAA pax and pilot who is 2x FAA pax. The worst case trip is 6x year with 2x pax who’s combined weight is 1.5 FAA pax. Pilot is 2 FAA pax. Worst case scenario will last for 2 years, then changes to a range between 150NM and 1382NM every two years depending on Army duty station. I know there will be stops for gas on the long trips and no, 121 isn’t an option as the nearest non-EAS terminal is 3 hrs drive. Pilot is IR rated, can’t afford a turbine and won’t fly plastic. Assume no rental available. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Life is always changing... not fast enough! Rentals are never available... Go Mooney! SJT San Angelo TX, home of JNJ... KAUS Austin TX, home of all things tech related, lately.... So... flying intra state usually requires a Cessna.... but, for big TX... the Mooney is perfect... The Mooney was designed and built for TX sized intrastate travel...In TX.... Depending on loading, a 130gal fuel capacity is a possibility.... using 13gph traveling 160kts... generally speaking... I used M20R numbers.... The last long cross-country I did.... was only 810 nm... 39N to KECP, NJ to FL. Non stop.... <100 gal.... Join the club... the speed and efficiency club! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 A Mooney Ovation or a Mooney Eagle with Monroy tanks can do that 1382nm trip nonstop with a headwind. Thats where I'd look personally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Taylor Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, TCC said: weight is .7 FAA pax And because I had to look it up...haha!…is the standard now 190 lbs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Budget?Preferred altitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted June 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Rentals are never available... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- Unfortunately, the rentals are only suitable for the short trips. The variable is the long trip...every two years for the next 14 years it can change range from 150NM to the long trips. Realistically, we see 6 years of 1K-1.3K NM trips. Beyond that it’s 650NM to 1K NM trips. One kid is fast tracking Army leadership routes. Momma wants to see that kiddo often since that’s the first born. We have capex and opex available for *most* used Mooney’s and I know we’re not going to hit every trip. We’ll be lucky to hit half the trips. I refuse to fly 121 for CONUS routes given the location of SJT. We could relocate to AUS and it still won’t measurably impact the long trips. A 252 *seems* like the answer with a club or rental 182ish plane or drive the short bits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Any will do; it depends on your budget. It's still cheaper and faster to fly the airlines and do the 3hr drive for the long trip. Texas to NY is a long cross country, even in a turboprop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 I don’t know how comfortable you’ll be in a Mooney at 2X FAA weights. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smwash02 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 An important variable here is what's the time budget for the long trip vs stop tolerance. A 252 will do it if you have no luggage in one stop if you get a light one. It's going to take you all day though. Better get a good autopilot and o2. As was said above at your weight, comfort will be an issue in addition to fuel loading. A turbo 210 or Saratoga might be more practical for this mission to stay legal weight wise and provide comfort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Niko182 said: A Mooney Ovation or a Mooney Eagle with Monroy tanks can do that 1382nm trip nonstop with a headwind. Thats where I'd look personally. Yeah, but given the weights he indicated he’d be carrying, he’d be weight-restricted on a 1300+NM nonstop with any amount of extended range fuel onboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpilot Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 I'm AF and just did a year of TX-AL commuting in my Mooney Bravo. I chose a Bravo because I required a plan that can fly in the FLs, a turbo, O2, and FIKI. In the winter I used all those tools.The SJT-AUS hop is easy in any of the Mooney's. Harder for the 1300NM trip. I was doing a bi-weekly 700NM trip and could do it non-stop with a headwind, but it was tough. Most of my flights were 3 hrs with a tailwind and 4.3 with headwinds. If you plan on taking two adults, you may be able to take full fuel, model depending. Anything more requires you to leave fuel. It sounds like you may need a payload at around 1000-1200lbs. If that's the case, you'll need to look at a T210 or other six seater. If you can live with 800 lbs then Mooneys are awesome.I'm in KSSF. If you pass through, we can fly in the Bravo. Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Like IP says the Bravo with long range tanks are great for one or two smaller people, I’ve done 1300 no a few times Delaware to Longview Tx nonstop. You mentioned your a big guy so I’d think the Mooney is out. A36, P210 Saratoga’s would meet missions. 201er can go 8+ hours in his J. I’d strongly consider a 310 if your rated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 If your trips were all going to be 168 nm then I would say a J, or if you could afford it, an Ovation. But when you go to 1400 nm you will want a turbo. Lowest price - 231, no FIKI available, good useful load usually above 900 lbs. Mid-range, 252, essentially the same aircraft but a better engine and can be FIKI but those are rare. Mid-high, Bravo, higher maintenance cost and gas use, lower useful load, very fast and capable in the flight levels. I fly my 231 two ways. One is lower altitudes, LOP, 16k or under, at a fuel flow of 11.1-11.3 GPH and TAS of 150 to 165 depending on altitude. The other way is ROP, higher altitudes, 13.3-13.5, basically the same power output as LOP, I need ROP up high for cooling. Typical would be to fly east to west in the lower altitudes, west to east up high. But the major benefit of a turbo is the ability to get above the clouds and turbulence for a smooth ride. Not practical, though, for short (168 nm) trips, not worth it because of the time to descend and climb. Useful load is 919, payload is a little over 460. Works for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted June 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 ... 2X FAA weights. Clarence ...As was said above at your weight... Yeah, but given the weights he indicated he’d be carrying... Sorry for the delay, it’s been a busy day. Thanks everyone for the input and holy crap thank you all for pointing out a huge typo I made using the small keyboard late at night on the phone. Pilot is 1.2 FAA pax, not 2. I gotta go fix that. ———————————Other thoughts; we’re comfortable spending up to $180K all in. Realistically, the longest trips will be 2x - 4x annually and we have to budget a full day of driving and two-leg flights to the possible destinations and sometimes an overnight anyways. We both have the option to work remotely as well. I don’t mind an O2 mask, but prefer cannula. My better half does mind a mask, but will use a cannula if necessary. Our other consideration is partnering in a 310. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted June 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 ...I'm in KSSF.... Will do. Used to fly out of 5C1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, TCC said: Our other consideration is partnering in a 310. That's your best option. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpilot Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 @TCC, You can get a really nice 310 for $180k. You can also get a nice long body Mooney for that same price range. I really like the T310s, but mx and budgeting for 2x overhauls has to be factored in. IMHO, if you plan to fly the family hard IFR or at night, a second engine is. I fly the fam during day VFR or high IMC. Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, TCC said: Sorry for the delay, it’s been a busy day. Thanks everyone for the input and holy crap thank you all for pointing out a huge typo I made using the small keyboard late at night on the phone. Pilot is 1.2 FAA pax, not 2. I gotta go fix that. ——————————— Other thoughts; we’re comfortable spending up to $180K all in. Realistically, the longest trips will be 2x - 4x annually and we have to budget a full day of driving and two-leg flights to the possible destinations and sometimes an overnight anyways. We both have the option to work remotely as well. I don’t mind an O2 mask, but prefer cannula. My better half does mind a mask, but will use a cannula if necessary. Our other consideration is partnering in a 310. 180k certainly puts you into Ovation territory, and would also get you a nice 310R or T310R. If you do explore the 310 market, certainly speak to the folks at TAS Aviation in Ohio. They’ve forgotten more about the twin Cessna market than I’ll probably learn in a lifetime. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, KLRDMD said: That's your best option. Yeah, agree. I nice de-iced (per serial number) 310R or T310R. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted June 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 180k certainly puts you into Ovation territory, and would also get you a nice 310R or T310R. If you do explore the 310 market, certainly speak to the folks at TAS Aviation in Ohio. They’ve forgotten more about the twin Cessna market than I’ll probably learn in a lifetime. Steve I’ve explored it a bit with 310 Pilot and the guy behind Cloud Nine Dog Rescue who had one for a few years. A Colemill Executive or Bearcat I with avionics upgrades would be the target plane, split two or three ways. It’ll be tough to put the partnership together though. Sole ownership would be nice, but the thought of two new motors back to back is eye-watering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Cabin class twins are other worldly.... Mooneys are all about Speed and Efficiency.... Using up a single engine Over 2khrs is expensive.... near 50amus Using up a big engine with a turbo... is really painful...near 100amus if you toss in the prop. Using up a pair of big engines with turbos... is otherworldly expensive... And... if you like to be highly involved with flying... a pair of 310hp TN’dIO550s would be really nice to fly... So... We covered Capex... 200amu buys a lot of plane... We sort of covered Opex.... annual hours, fuel price, burn rates, annual maint., hangar, insurance... Then we went in various directions on twin Overhauls.... Call that maintEx... Might throw in single turbine and continuous education.... and the Holy cow insurance bill that come with that... Ordinary MSers Fly singles for a few reasons.... What they fly for work.... is often really impressive... People that fly twin turbines for work, fly Mooneys on their own budget... Then there are a few that start with a great turbo Mooney to prepare for their next level... Some have gone turbine, others twins, and one guy just sold his Acclaim while stepping up to a twin jet... The cool thing about MSers... no two are alike... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 12 hours ago, TCC said: Sorry for the delay, it’s been a busy day. Thanks everyone for the input and holy crap thank you all for pointing out a huge typo I made using the small keyboard late at night on the phone. Pilot is 1.2 FAA pax, not 2. I gotta go fix that. ——————————— Other thoughts; we’re comfortable spending up to $180K all in. Realistically, the longest trips will be 2x - 4x annually and we have to budget a full day of driving and two-leg flights to the possible destinations and sometimes an overnight anyways. We both have the option to work remotely as well. I don’t mind an O2 mask, but prefer cannula. My better half does mind a mask, but will use a cannula if necessary. Our other consideration is partnering in a 310. A Piper Comanche 400 would fit you mission nicely. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 Minor update; spent some time yesterday flight planning a majority of the likely destinations and comparing against the airlines. The flights are split roughly down the middle. About half the destinations are in the 1K -1.3K NM range with the rest in the 300-600NM range. For the long flights, the shortest airline flight is 2-stops, clocking in at 8h 11m before waiting at the airport. That can be cut down to 1-stop/6hrs by getting on the airlines at DFW. Thinking differently, SJT - DFW or AUS is roughly 200NM, HOU is ~300NM, opening those airline departures up as being reasonable for the long hauls while still likely being able to do the short hauls by GA and softening up the hit to the pocketbook both initially and overtime. We’ve got some thinking to do on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smwash02 Posted June 23, 2020 Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 Just a comment on your airlines transition flights. Make sure to factor cost of arrival and storage at those airports and transition time from GA to Public sides. Both can be high. You also have time cost in going to your airport and preparing the plane, headwinds, weather, etc. I bet the time delta comes out more narrow than you think. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 Just a comment on your airlines transition flights. Make sure to factor cost of arrival and storage at those airports and transition time from GA to Public sides. Both can be high. You also have time cost in going to your airport and preparing the plane, headwinds, weather, etc. I bet the time delta comes out more narrow than you think. Yeah; the benefit of GA is our ability to flex the schedule. Adding an airline transition forces a fly or drive situation that pretty much requires an extra day on each end and the associated costs might just end up it a wash on both the time and the budget savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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