Help me value my C.

[ragedracer1977]

1963 C

Just over 5000TT.

Paint is probably a 7-8.

Good interior. Leather seats, front seats bolstered with headrests.  Leather wrapped J yokes. Newish carpets. 

Dual G5s with GAD-13 OAT interface. 430w with flight stream 210.  Brand new JPI EDM-900 with CIES senders.  Garmin 330ES adsb out.  

All LED lighting except for the wing tip strobes.  Aveo Redbaron LED beacon.

Tanks resealed by weep no more about 5 years ago. No leaks at all.

Good tires, about 1.5 years old.  All landing gear pucks replaced 3 years ago. 

201 windshield (needs replaced eventually, there's some crazing on the copilot side, but it hasn't gotten worse in the 3 years I've owned it).

I think every speed mod ever made by lasar except the one piece belly.  Flap gap seals, dorsal fin, cowl closure, wingtips, etc etc. 

Flies regularly. 20+ hours a month.  I'd get in and go anywhere right now.  And I usually do.

Needs new wingtip plastic lenses.  They've been stop drilled many times.  As far as I know that's the only squawk besides the windshield that needs to be addressed some day.

Just installed a new carburetor.  

Pretty new Concord rg35xc battery 

Plane power alternator system.

Sky-Tec lightweight starter.

Comes with a surefly magneto and brand new slick harness.  It was on, but I sent it back to surefly for trouble shooting.  Haven't reinstalled it yet, so it's got standard Magnetos right now.  Left overhauled 100 hours ago, right brand new 100 hours ago.

And then we come to the engine. By the book it has 2025 hours or so.  However..  the guy I got it from owned it as his forever plane.  So, when he found a cracked case, he saved money and didn't opt for a 'legal' overhaul.  Case was replaced. Everything in the bottom end either was replaced or met factory new tolerances. Including cam and lifters.  That was about 800 hours ago (about 5 years but I'm not positive without the books in front of me).  Then about 700 hours ago, he had the top redone with brand new nickel ECi cylinders. Then he lost his medical.   I've done oil analysis on just about every oil change.  It doesn't make metal. None in the filter, none to note on oil reports.  Compressions have always been in 77-79 range.

All fine wire plugs.

It's used regularly, and for long trips.  Twice from Phoenix to San Antonio and back in the past 2 weeks. 

I cruise at (no BS real numbers) 138-143 knots TAS around 10,000' at about 8.5-9 gph. I can go a little faster at 11 gph and a little slower at 7.5 gph.

I've tried to spare no expense.  I address squawks as they appear.  I've been constantly upgrading.  I've made 450 flights in 3 years.  I've had to scrub 3 times.  Once when I first bought it.  Glass fell out of the MAP/FP gauge.  Once shortly after. Infant mortality on a magneto. Last was the original starter going bad. 99.3% dispatch rate isn't bad....

So...... Long story short, what should I be asking?

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by ragedracer1977

[47U]

Brice,

I’m not following the market closely enough to make a guess on price, but regardless of the substantial engine work, TSMO is TSMO, and you’re past it.  It’s going to impact the appraisal, in my opinion.

Damage history?  Complete logbooks?  Got the FAA CD?

Curious to know the story about colliding with wires and power poles back in 1967.  Excerpt from the NTSB report:

REMARKS- WIRES BROKEN,POWER POLES DAMAGED.PLT MADE NO REPORT AND DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ACDNT.

If it’s all fixed up good it might not be an issue.  But damage history should be disclosed and the repairs explained in detail (to the best of your knowledge), even if it’s ancient history.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=18724&key=0.

My apologies if you didn’t know.

tom  

 

[Brian E.]

Sounds like a nice C.  Would love to see a few pics.  Tom's tight on about the engine although we know of a good number of folks who have rung up 3k hours on their O-360's  It should get priced out as a timed out engine.... 

[Boilermonkey]

Does the airplane have an autopilot?   I’d say with a decent AP, like a STEC 30 with ALT hold the plane is probably worth $40K-$50K.  The engine story is good, but if I were buying I would take the view that it is going to need to be replaced very soon.  Similarly, I’d want to know about that damage history, but that might just lead to a more detailed inspection.   My two cents....

[ragedracer1977]

6 hours ago, 47U said:

Brice,

I’m not following the market closely enough to make a guess on price, but regardless of the substantial engine work, TSMO is TSMO, and you’re past it.  It’s going to impact the appraisal, in my opinion.

Damage history?  Complete logbooks?  Got the FAA CD?

Curious to know the story about colliding with wires and power poles back in 1967.  Excerpt from the NTSB report:

REMARKS- WIRES BROKEN,POWER POLES DAMAGED.PLT MADE NO REPORT AND DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ACDNT.

If it’s all fixed up good it might not be an issue.  But damage history should be disclosed and the repairs explained in detail (to the best of your knowledge), even if it’s ancient history.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=18724&key=0.

My apologies if you didn’t know.

tom  

 

Oh yeah I know.  The entire empennage was replaced with a factory new one.  It was geared up once 30 years ago too. It's my opinion, and understanding, that to any normal buyer, 60 year old damage history that was repaired to new is pretty much irrelevant 

Yes, I have all logs since new.  

I have the FAA CD around somewhere, but there's been a dozen STCs added since then. 

And yes. I agree it's likely to be valued as a run out engine, even though it's not even mid time

Edited May 26, 2020 by ragedracer1977

[47U]

I’d say that replacing the empennage with a factory new (more than 50 years ago) is a proper repair and shouldn’t affect the listing price at all, similarly with the gear up 30 years ago.  It’s a non issue because most vintage C’s (I’m guessing) have had a gear up.

It does sound like a really nice airplane.  The tie breaker between your’s and other’s on the market might come down to the paint color/scheme.  That’s superficial, but often true.  

Someone is going to get a really nice airplane.  Good luck!

tom   

[ragedracer1977]

In my biased opinion, it's a pretty nice looking airplane.  

[Niko182]

Id say inbetween 50 and 65k. Yes the engine is hogh tike but it was pretty much iraned about 800 hours ago. Avionocs are really good for a C. New tanks and pucks are another big plus. If youre patient, i wouldnt be blown away if you got 60k for it. I feel like tgats what it should be around based on the G5's, JPI900, and other goodies.

[47U]

That’s a really nice looking C.  REALLY nice.

There’s a guy near Omaha looking for a C right now.

tom

[Brian E.]

Nice pic--very sharp paint scheme.  

[chriscalandro]

I have a buddy actively looking for a C or an E.  Let me know when you are ready!

[EricJ]

This is probably one of the cleanest C models around.    It definitely does not suffer from the usual malady of not being flown enough. 

 

[Raptor05121]

Bottom of the barrel- $45k. I hope you fetch closer to 60. Your plane is a model I hope to achieve one day with mine.

[MIm20c]

I agree with the above if everything is working, especially the AP.  If I was listing mine right now, and I might be in 6 months, I’d probably ask 45-50ish. 

[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I agree with the above if everything is working, especially the AP.  If I was listing mine right now, and I might be in 6 months, I’d probably ask 45-50ish. 

I think you're asking way too low.

I do not have an autopilot.  If true track or Garmin ever got their stuff together, it would. I've had the cash set aside for 2 years.  

Browsing controller and TAP, you can't get a worn out C for under $50k

[Andy95W]

If you had a low time engine (>500 hours) and a TruTrak, I think you'd be looking at around $80,000- which would probably make it the highest priced M20C out there.  I think you should start at $60k and go from there.

I would first call Jewell Aviation and describe your current engine to them.  They could probably overhaul it for $15k, and you could ask a lot more for your airplane- like $75k to start.

[ragedracer1977]

46 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

If you had a low time engine (>500 hours) and a TruTrak, I think you'd be looking at around $80,000- which would probably make it the highest priced M20C out there.  I think you should start at $60k and go from there.

I would first call Jewell Aviation and describe your current engine to them.  They could probably overhaul it for $15k, and you could ask a lot more for your airplane- like $75k to start.

Time value of money. 

I could probably pretty easily get $50k as it sits.  Take 3 months and invest another $15k+ to get an extra $10k maybe isn't worth it to me.  

I know the value is less with the engine time.  

If I were a buyer (I'm biased lol) I'd look at the other planes available, look at mine, and think - I could buy any other plane on the market for $50k (or considerably more) put $50k into paint, interior, and Avionics and have a similarly equipped plane with an unknown engine. Or I could buy my plane for $55k, maybe tomorrow, maybe in 5 years have to hang a new engine at $15k.  And still be huge money ahead. 

I just hope buyers think like me.  

[N201MKTurbo]

That plane is in great shape!

[Raptor05121]

5 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Time value of money. 

I could probably pretty easily get $50k as it sits.  Take 3 months and invest another $15k+ to get an extra $10k maybe isn't worth it to me.  

I know the value is less with the engine time.  

If I were a buyer (I'm biased lol) I'd look at the other planes available, look at mine, and think - I could buy any other plane on the market for $50k (or considerably more) put $50k into paint, interior, and Avionics and have a similarly equipped plane with an unknown engine. Or I could buy my plane for $55k, maybe tomorrow, maybe in 5 years have to hang a new engine at $15k.  And still be huge money ahead. 

I just hope buyers think like me.  

Yup that's my exact valuation. With avionics shops inundated with ADS-B installs and all the new gadgets, it seems getting an engine overhauled is quicker and cheaper.

[Jim Peace]

Picture of the panel?

[Jim Peace]

Can you share some info about this flight?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N6716U/history/20200501/2152Z/KGYR/KMHR

 

I love to see max endurance flights.....

power settings, fuel flow, etc.....must have felt like a long time.....

[ragedracer1977]

31 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Can you share some info about this flight?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N6716U/history/20200501/2152Z/KGYR/KMHR

 

I love to see max endurance flights.....

power settings, fuel flow, etc.....must have felt like a long time.....

I used right at 40 gallons.  I was running WOT, prop at about 2350, 8.2 gph.  Cruising at about 138kts TAS.  

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That plane is in great shape!

I just sold it.  

Seriously.  A friend of mine from CHD just called hearing I was thinking about selling.  He sold his C a year ago when he got laid off.  He just got a new job, but he's going to be based in San Diego.  His wife is going to be staying here for about a year, so he needs a commuter. 

He offered me a little more than I wanted.  

And I can keep it till mid-end of June while he gets stuff in order. 

 

[gsxrpilot]

10 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I just sold it.

The good ones never hang around long. Well done.

[Niko182]

11 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I just sold it.  

Seriously.  A friend of mine from CHD just called hearing I was thinking about selling.  He sold his C a year ago when he got laid off.  He just got a new job, but he's going to be based in San Diego.  His wife is going to be staying here for about a year, so he needs a commuter. 

He offered me a little more than I wanted.  

And I can keep it till mid-end of June while he gets stuff in order. 

 

If you dont mind, what did you get for it?