Flight Instructing in the Era of Covid-19

[donkaye]

I've been flight instructing for the past 26 years pretty much full time.  I have loved it.  There has been great satisfaction watching people expand their universe, whether it be the instrument rating,  commercial rating, transition training, flight reviews, and on and on, while at the same time enjoying the freedom and joy of flying myself.  Never would I have thought that we'd be in the predicament  that we are in right now.  How do you safely flight instruct now without risking your life?  Who knows the chain of contacts of the other person or they of you?  I guess taking temperatures, wearing masks and gloves, Clorox wipes, Lysol spray would help mitigate the situation, but there are still no guarantees.  Many of the most experienced instructors are in the age group where caution should be the order of the day.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, but as of right now it seems pretty grim for both flight instructors and students alike, if you value your life.  Until there is a vaccine or more certain treatments, it seems like a crap shoot to either get training or to train.

[DXB]

I think some older instructors who don't really NEED to instruct may reasonably choose to wait it out until there is an effective vaccine.  But in large part, we pilots need instructors and instructors need us.  Instructors and students will do sanitary wipes and masks and not touch their faces or use other peoples headsets.  As with any activity requiring human contact, we will also learn to accept a new element of risk because we can't hide forever. We can take some mitigating precautions but I do not think it makes sense to collapse the range of human activity that makes life worthwhile in the first place. 

[alextstone]

Here's a thought:

  Have you considered wearing an O2 mask?  The silicone type that provides a good seal?  Your student could wear a level 3 or N95 mask and between the two, you would be adequately protected from aersols.  Weird, but what isn't right now???

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, alextstone said:

Here's a thought:

  Have you considered wearing an O2 mask?  The silicone type that provides a good seal?  Your student could wear a level 3 or N95 mask and between the two, you would be adequately protected from aersols.  Weird, but what isn't right now???

Thanks, Alex.  Food for thought.

[gacoon]

Don, I,m like you,  73 yo Cfii instructing for 20 year plus and loving it.  Basically I think we have to wait it out and hope they develop a vaccine.  What bummer!

[carusoam]

Wondering if AOPA has offered a guideline...

• your risk is higher...
• You are going to fly...
• What PPE are you going to use to minimize your risk...
• Close quarters can’t be avoided...
• proper masks and proper fit are going to be key...
• Eye covering may be helpful as well... safety glasses used by medical field...?
• The third part... gloves. Find something cool... that keeps you from touching your face...
• then the whole level of washing hands between everything...

Use extra caution... the first few times... make sure everything is fitting as tightly as designed...

Last time I was in a plane for several hours my throat was so dry... I had to cough... nobody likes that when it happens...

Have a plan B as usual....

PP thoughts only, not a PPE expert...

Some things to add to your lists of things to consider...

Best regards,

-a-

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Wondering if AOPA has offered a guideline...

• your risk is higher...
• You are going to fly...
• What PPE are you going to use to minimize your risk...
• Close quarters can’t be avoided...
• proper masks and proper fit are going to be key...
• Eye covering may be helpful as well... safety glasses used by medical field...?
• The third part... gloves. Find something cool... that keeps you from touching your face...
• then the whole level of washing hands between everything...

Use extra caution... the first few times... make sure everything is fitting as tightly as designed...

Last time I was in a plane for several hours my throat was so dry... I had to cough... nobody likes that when it happens...

Have a plan B as usual....

PP thoughts only, not a PPE expert...

Some things to add to your lists of things to consider...

Best regards,

-a-

Yikes!  Armor up.  Following these guidelines sounds like you're preparing to go into a Corvid-19 hospital intensive care ward.  Sort of takes the fun out of flight instructing.

[carusoam]

36 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Yikes!  Armor up.  Following these guidelines sounds like you're preparing to go into a Corvid-19 hospital intensive care ward.  Sort of takes the fun out of flight instructing.

I am probably influenced by family working in the hospital environment... 

Many of those people have been put into close contact with Covid patients as part of their new responsibilities...

 

My challenge... Unfortunately, there may not be a second chance (a do-over) for some of us established gentlemen aviators... age or pre-conditions have put a dent in some of the fun...

I am thinking that AOPA can put some logic in place to allow us to at least feel comfortable when flying with people of unknown backgrounds...

Current Covid19 testing takes about a week to get results back...

I just have too few answers... wishing I could be more helpful... 

Fortunately, things seem to be easing up around the world... hopefully something can be learned that is useful for us.

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

...
Fortunately, things seem to be easing up around the world... hopefully something can be learned that is useful for us.
Best regards,
-a-

I am facing this dillemma as well. But despite things beginning to ease, nothing regarding our personal risk has changed since we started to shelter in place. We're still in a state of exponential infection growth and deaths. Nor do I expect that will change anytime soon. But I don't relish taking a year or two off either.


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[Boilermonkey]

Certainly testing would help, but only if quick and consistent.  Since people are asymptomatic for up to five days, if you only test them when they are symptomatic then they would have been spreading it for several days.  Moreover, if someone is negative, what's their exposure between tests?

Until the conundrum above is addressed social distancing is going to be the norm, no matter what authorities "open up."  Thankfully, a lot of the economy can get going with distancing.  As you have said, doing so in a light single or twin can't happen.  So, what PPE can you use while assuming the other pilot has the virus, and still have a viable instruction flight?   

I think it should start with a discussion about each pilot's risk level.  Age, exposure, etc.   For instance if you were instructing someone how works from home on a normal day versus someone who just went to the beach because they were open, are at different levels of risk.  Or, working with an instructor who has a limited number of students, versus dozens a week.  Or, using a flight school plane versus a private owner.    Each of us needs to manage our own exposure risk, and that is a personal calculation, just like personal minimums.  You've just got to make sure you get all the data you can.

[Jerry 5TJ]

On a positive note: Aside from the student next to me all other people are a couple thousand feet away. 

[Ibra]

I agree big chunk of it is mainly discussion on crew risk levels, but there are two things that 1/ virus circulating in population? and 2/ health risk inside cockpit? 

On 2/ the odds don't play well with this bug (compared to other nasty things),
- Lives longer on steel & plastic surface (maybe less on cooper & wood planes?) with many shared contact points: controls, doors, avionics...
- Cockpit: will wearing masks inside cockpit effective in a typical 1h30min lesson? how much? vs aerosol or droplets? does ventilation help?
- Crew: out of those infected 20%-30% don't even show symptoms and they do contribute to almost half transmissions 

At the end of the day the risk on 1/ are no different than a regular visit to the barber, the dentist, or a date...on the risk on 2/ seems slightly higher: less space & can't leave that room for 1h but in other hand pilots don't fly when they are unwell, but lot of risks in 2/ can be reduced by crew testing, mitigated by serious protection (N95/PPE) and frequent cockpit cleaning...

How much transmission risk when flying dual for 1h wearing homemade mask in cockpit? vs say 30min of Uber drive? 2, 10, 100, 10000?
As of now main driver of my decision is 1/, if virus is not circulating and stays under control, some may take more chances with 2/
If virus is circulating out of control, I have other priorities than flying dual and more inclined to stay home... 

In the mathematical sense one can't get blamed for R>1 doing dual instruction, as long as they are 2SOB for about the incubation period  

Edited May 11, 2020 by Ibra

[donkaye]

All of this in NOT encouraging.  For example I have at least 4 students who want to fly now.  The first one is for a  flight review.  I've been flying with him for over 20 years.  He is not current now.  He lives in a part of the San Jose that has the highest incidence of the virus, where as stated in the newspaper, multiple people have died from it, even middle age people.  I have another student, who luckily I finished his recurrence training just before the shelter in place took effect.  He wants to get his instrument rating and has almost the exact same panel as I have, so I'd love to teach him.  Problem is he is an ER Doctor and has a number of Covid patients.  I have another student who just got the GFC 500 and wants to get checked out in it and get an IPC.  Finally, I want to do my annual Basic and Advanced Wings Program.  The problem is that the instructor who I've done it with has several teenage children and continues to teach multiple students because she is a single Mother who needs to work.  How many "chains" are in that one?

Someone from Apple Computer once said that the experience of using the computer should be transparent to what is behind the scenes,  In other wards, the computer itself should not get in the way of using it.  Similarly, I don't see how armoring up can't help but get in the way of teaching, and as mentioned above might not even be that effective.

[gsxrpilot]

If I were you, I wouldn't risk it. None of you need to teach to put food on the table, or to pay your mortgage. I just wouldn't do it.

You gentlemen are the best Mooney instructors there are... and Gentlemen in the truest sense of the word. We'd like to keep you around for a long time to come. 

[RobertGary1]

11 hours ago, gacoon said:

Don, I,m like you,  73 yo Cfii instructing for 20 year plus and loving it.  Basically I think we have to wait it out and hope they develop a vaccine.  What bummer!

You’re looking at more than a year out then. 
 

-Robert 

[RobertGary1]

I’m not teaching during this but the flight schools are. I know the dpe’s are out working and giving rides. 
 

-Robert 

[Danb]

Don you can take the normal recommended precautions but the group you outlined are in the extreme  high risk category. I’d consider teaching or flying if I could mitigate risk, you’ve outlined who to stay from. 
I would consider teaching after :
— determining those in the low risk category how one measures this?

— once a candidate clears the selection process the mitigation is next

— clean disinfecting all areas you may be in contact with

— wearing a useful mask

— wearing good thin discardable gloves

— having disinfecting wipes in my pocket

—ETC

next I would do my debriefing either on line or at a distance 

Basically I just took all the enjoyment out of your flying.

Other than waiting this thing out our choices aren’t very good.

Good luck there’s no doubt you will take the necessary precautions 

Cabin fever is amongst us, I used to think house arrest was a joke I’m now rethinking my position 

[bradp]

Our respiratory therapy supervisor’s s.o. flies for JBU.  They had one of their pilots and more than one FA pass away from the virus.  So cockpit transmission is a real potential given the proximity. 
 

Armoring up is helpful but doesn’t get rid of the risk.  Communication with proper PPE on is quite difficult and the garb does mess with your senses. It’s also a distraction to some extent... probably not too far off from flying with a helmet or a an O2 mask.  When I used to fly medevac it was really hard to do stuff with a helmet on.  Kind of like an n95 / face shield etc.  you felt like you were 3 feet back from whatever was going on. 
 

My BFR is up in Aug- hoping we have some path forward or administrative respite beside feeling pressured to hit up the local 141 school for a Cesspool BFR.  
 

Gives the term cesspool a new, very appropriate connotation, no?

[aviatoreb]

22 hours ago, alextstone said:

Here's a thought:

  Have you considered wearing an O2 mask?  The silicone type that provides a good seal?  Your student could wear a level 3 or N95 mask and between the two, you would be adequately protected from aersols.  Weird, but what isn't right now???

Even wearing a mask, isn't there some ambient air coming into the mask - its not pure O2 we are breathing is it?  My blue mask has a mic at the end of it and the mic unit has some kind of filter in it.  Aren't we breathing some air in through the filter (asking - not asserting).  If that is so, then the question is if the filter is fine enough to filter these particles, and even so, if it is, then if it is exposed to these particles then it would need to be desensitized before re-using it all day long.

[kpaul]

44 minutes ago, bradp said:

Our respiratory therapy supervisor’s s.o. flies for JBU.  They had one of their pilots and more than one FA pass away from the virus.  So cockpit transmission is a real potential given the proximity. 
 

Armoring up is helpful but doesn’t get rid of the risk.  Communication with proper PPE on is quite difficult and the garb does mess with your senses. It’s also a distraction to some extent... probably not too far off from flying with a helmet or a an O2 mask.  When I used to fly medevac it was really hard to do stuff with a helmet on.  Kind of like an n95 / face shield etc.  you felt like you were 3 feet back from whatever was going on. 
 

My BFR is up in Aug- hoping we have some path forward or administrative respite beside feeling pressured to hit up the local 141 school for a Cesspool BFR.  
 

Gives the term cesspool a new, very appropriate connotation, no?

I don't think flying with properly designed PPE is very difficult.   I have flown with 3 different types of helmets, O2 masks, NVGs, and even full up chemical protection suits with sealed head coverings.  That being said is was something we practiced and they were designed or retrofitted for aircrew use.

The big problem as far as I can tell there is nothing purpose built for GA or commerical cockpits.

I don't blame anyone for not instructing during this uncertain time.  I still fly 3 days per week instructing.  We take disinfectant and wipe down the cockpits.  We do not wear any maskes in the plane because it does interfere with the boom mics ability to break squelch. Also, it precludes donning an O2 maks in the case of emergency.

[kpaul]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

Even wearing a mask, isn't there some ambient air coming into the mask - its not pure O2 we are breathing is it?  My blue mask has a mic at the end of it and the mic unit has some kind of filter in it.  Aren't we breathing some air in through the filter (asking - not asserting).  If that is so, then the question is if the filter is fine enough to filter these particles, and even so, if it is, then if it is exposed to these particles then it would need to be desensitized before re-using it all day long.

Depends on the mask and O2 system.  In the Beech 400 I can go on 100% O2 (no ambient cockpit air) and also select emergency which forces a constant pressure of O2 to the mask.  The latter makes it difficult to talk and is very loud over the mic.  It also depletes the O2 system pretty quickly.

[aviatoreb]

52 minutes ago, bradp said:

Our respiratory therapy supervisor’s s.o. flies for JBU.  They had one of their pilots and more than one FA pass away from the virus.  So cockpit transmission is a real potential given the proximity. 

We have a medical lift company on our field, and the team's hangar for their Pilatus is immediately across from my hangar.  They have definitely been very busy in the last months.  Moving critical patients from places like NYC to less busy places like Albany, etc.  There are extra hazards like desanitizing the airplane after flights that are quite a job even for the mechanics.  These teams are front line workers and they deserve all the thanks same as the nurses, doctors, etc.

53 minutes ago, bradp said:

My BFR is up in Aug- hoping we have some path forward or administrative respite beside feeling pressured to hit up the local 141 school for a Cesspool BFR.  

We all have dates coming up.  I feel your pain.  Just today I pulled the trigger to reserve a date to have the local business do my annual rather than what I had planned was the Mooney specific shop in PA. Our local shop does a fine job and the convenience of not dealing with all the logistics of repositioning, renting a supposedly not-infected rental car, etc, in this moment, outweighed the gold star treatment of a shop floor full of Mooney know how.  This time.  Plus I am also happy to support the local economy in this moment our rural community (as all) are hard hit.

And my medical runs out at the end of July - wondering of the flight surgeon will be available in July.

And my BFR runs out in December.  Wondering if my favorite 30,000 hr wise-old check pilot will be available.

And these are small concerns in the grand scheme of things.  All of my family have each their own issues related to this all.  And my friends.  And neighbors.

Looking forward to when this is all over.  And really over.

Stay safe my friends.

[aviatoreb]

1 minute ago, kpaul said:

Depends on the mask and O2 system.  In the Beech 400 I can go on 100% O2 (no ambient cockpit air) and also select emergency which forces a constant pressure of O2 to the mask.  The latter makes it difficult to talk and is very loud over the mic.  It also depletes the O2 system pretty quickly.

That makes sense.  Just saying, I don't believe my blue-mask system that a lot of us have from Mountain high is a pandemic safe-measure is all I am saying, even though at first blush it might seem intuitively to be so.  Anyway I had the same thought, that maybe wearing an O2mask is the way to go.

Actually I would think wearing a gas mask would be better (when still at not needing supplemental o2) altitudes would be a better way to go if we are for sure in a cockpit next to an infected co-pilot.  I wonder what medical lift companies are doing to mitigate the effect - for the pilots, for the flight nurses.  Being in a cockpit of a pressurized airplane is definitely a more closed more intense exposure environment than even in an ambulance which is surely more than being in a store with someone walking by.

 

[kortopates]

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

If I were you, I wouldn't risk it. None of you need to teach to put food on the table, or to pay your mortgage. I just wouldn't do it.

You gentlemen are the best Mooney instructors there are... and Gentlemen in the truest sense of the word. We'd like to keep you around for a long time to come. 

Exactly what my wife is telling me! And of course I don't want to be the one to bring it home either. But thanks!

[kpaul]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

That makes sense.  Just saying, I don't believe my blue-mask system that a lot of us have from Mountain high is a pandemic safe-measure is all I am saying, even though at first blush it might seem intuitively to be so.  Anyway I had the same thought, that maybe wearing an O2mask is the way to go.

Actually I would think wearing a gas mask would be better (when still at not needing supplemental o2) altitudes would be a better way to go if we are for sure in a cockpit next to an infected co-pilot.  I wonder what medical lift companies are doing to mitigate the effect - for the pilots, for the flight nurses.  Being in a cockpit of a pressurized airplane is definitely a more closed more intense exposure environment than even in an ambulance which is surely more than being in a store with someone walking by.

 

I can ensure you that flying in chem gear is a horrible experience.