Spare Tire

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, PT20J said:

If you remove the screw extension from the piston of a small bottle jack, the piston fits nicely over a Mooney jack point. A few blocks of wood will raise the jack high enough to raise a main wheel. 

Not disputing this works but I am leary of bottle jacks on the the wing unless they are in a frame.  My hangar neighbor put one through the wing of his Comanche...25k later.  I jacked at the swing arm with a steel pipe and stacked boards as able under the gear.  In the unlikely event of a jack failure this would leave the wing unscathed.

[steingar]

Those that carry spare tires, do you guys also carry jacks?  And do you carry engine lifts (or tail tie downs)?  Spare tires and tubes are pretty useless without.

[smwash02]

37 minutes ago, steingar said:

Those that carry spare tires, do you guys also carry jacks?  And do you carry engine lifts (or tail tie downs)?  Spare tires and tubes are pretty useless without.

I respectfully disagree.

The odds of being able to find a tube locally on a weekend (or sometimes even during the week) are not very good.

The odds of being able to taxi/uber/lyft to buy a tool set and a jack or finding a local A&P or mechanically inclined pilot who has a jack and tools are generally pretty good.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

But the jacks thats the mechanics use are glorified bottle jacks are they not?

https://www.tronair.com/products/Lifting-and-Shoring-ATA-7/Jacks

Andrew?

Yes, many are. Some are threaded. The type of jack by which the plane is lifted is not the concern. What’s of concern is how that jack is stabilized. Aircraft jacks  typically have a large platform under the jack with 3 or 4 stabilizing legs that attach at the collar (like the ones in your link). In a pinch, some folks have been known to use automotive style bottle jacks and a wood or cinder block to jack a single wheel in order to R&R a tire. Not something to attempt unless you know what your doing and have no other options (as in my first post in the this thread).

[Shadrach]

4 hours ago, smwash02 said:

I respectfully disagree.

The odds of being able to find a tube locally on a weekend (or sometimes even during the week) are not very good.

The odds of being able to taxi/uber/lyft to buy a tool set and a jack or finding a local A&P or mechanically inclined pilot who has a jack and tools are generally pretty good.

 I had everything I needed including safety wire and pliers in my onboard toolkit (<10lbs). I’ve been looking for a low profile bottle jack to go under the gear axle but haven’t found a great solution yet.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Shadrach

[smwash02]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

 I had everything I needed including safety wire and pliers in my onboard toolkit (<10lbs). I’ve been looking for a low profile bottle jack to go under the gear axle but haven’t found a great solution yet.

This jack might work for the mains if you pull the doors. I'd need to take a better look at the gear next time I'm at the airport.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 I had everything I needed including safety wire and pliers in my onboard toolkit (<10lbs). I’ve been looking for a low profile bottle jack to go under the gear axle but haven’t found a great solution yet.

I think a pipe, maybe with a flat spot a flange welded on, through the gear and a scissor jack to lift the pipe would be lighter than a bottle jack, and maybe have more reach.

https://www.amazon.com/LEAD-BRAND-Scissor-Capacity-Strength/dp/B07CZGTXYH/ref=pd_cp_263_1/

 

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, smwash02 said:

This jack might work for the mains if you pull the doors. I'd need to take a better look at the gear next time I'm at the airport.

Nicely designed piece but fiddling with the gear doors makes it a no go.

[tigers2007]

If weight is still being carried on the gear, how likely is it for it to fold up? I've seen that video of the Mooney taking off on grass and the gear folds up. I'm nervous to crawl under mine even in the hangar. I would definitely be terrified to crawl under it in the field when trying to jerry-rig up a lift to change the tire. Anyone consider a giant air bag to lift the entire wing, centered under the lift point? You could use shop vac exhaust to lift it safely. Could serve as a mega-lifeboat too.

[carusoam]

If the gear is down and locked... it is unlikely to fold.

We can put some pretty strong side loading on our gear, and not fear them collapsing...

I Have slid the firebird... but have not slid a Mooney... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ah now I understand.  Very good point.  I certainly dont like the idea of raising the aircraft on a scissor jack as someone is suggesting on here, you only need the plane to wobble ever so slightly and those things go off balance and fall over, ive seen it on car way too many times.

Andrew

Agree that there are lots of ways for things to go badly. However, removing a tire requires very little travel. When I raised mine in the field I scrounged several 2”X4” and “ 1X6”  boards. I stacked them under the gear where the axle meets the gear leg. As the plane was jacked I’d add another when clearance permitted. I would have done the same if I’d had a scissor lift available. It was a safe and stable solution that rendered the plane airworthy in under an hour.  

[smwash02]

On 10/28/2019 at 8:14 PM, tigers2007 said:

If weight is still being carried on the gear, how likely is it for it to fold up? I've seen that video of the Mooney taking off on grass and the gear folds up. I'm nervous to crawl under mine even in the hangar. I would definitely be terrified to crawl under it in the field when trying to jerry-rig up a lift to change the tire. Anyone consider a giant air bag to lift the entire wing, centered under the lift point? You could use shop vac exhaust to lift it safely. Could serve as a mega-lifeboat too.

The plane in the video is a J bar C model. I have no proof at all and this is pure conjecture from my hours of flying one on grass, but I feel he had his hand on the release and during the bumps (it's bumpy taking off on grass) he hit it and gravity and the bumps took care of the rest. If the preloads are set right and your lock block is in reasonable condition I don't think it's a big risk. Being extra cautious isn't a bad thing though.

[flyer338]

A long time ago on my way home from work (commuting Monday and Friday between Santa Rosa CA (STS) and Fortuna CA (FOT)) I landed at Lakeport to buy LASAR’s retrofit panel to convert my 1965 C to a standard six-pack configuration. 

I completed the transaction and saddled up for the trip home. As I turned to line up for take off from Lampson field the plane locked a wheel and would not move. I shut down and got out, blocking the approach end of the runway (a Cessna landed over the top of me). I do not recall which main gear, but one wheel mechanically failed and the separated wheel rim jammed against the brake caliper. My plane was not moving. 

Here is where Paul Loewen’s team really stepped up. They jacked the main gear, I think they used a floor jack, and got me off of the runway. Then they replaced my wheel with a continued time part, and I was on my way. 

I have always wondered what would have happened had the wheel failed on landing. The plane, and presumably the wheel, were north of 5500 hours total time at that point. This took place December 1999. 

[flyer338]

Another thing, I really found the discussion about what spares to carry both thought provoking and enlightening. I think carrying a spare main gear and spare nose gear tube is worth the useful load required. But maybe a patch kit would do as well?

[EricJ]

23 minutes ago, flyer338 said:

A long time ago on my way home from work (commuting Monday and Friday between Santa Rosa CA (STS) and Fortuna CA (FOT)) I landed at Lakeport to buy LASAR’s retrofit panel to convert my 1965 C to a standard six-pack configuration. 

I completed the transaction and saddled up for the trip home. As I turned to line up for take off from Lampson field the plane locked a wheel and would not move. I shut down and got out, blocking the approach end of the runway (a Cessna landed over the top of me). I do not recall which main gear, but one wheel mechanically failed and the separated wheel rim jammed against the brake caliper. My plane was not moving. 

Here is where Paul Loewen’s team really stepped up. They jacked the main gear, I think they used a floor jack, and got me off of the runway. Then they replaced my wheel with a continued time part, and I was on my way. 

I have always wondered what would have happened had the wheel failed on landing. The plane, and presumably the wheel, were north of 5500 hours total time at that point. This took place December 1999. 

Locking a wheel on landing is a survivable event.   It's not infrequent and often pilot-initiated.

You might get a flat spot, though.

[corn_flake]

For those that carry spare tube, what additional tools do you carry to install the tube?  

[RobertGary1]

I assume you mean spare tube. I can’t think of any reason to carry a spare tire 

-Robert 

[flyer338]

15 hours ago, EricJ said:

Locking a wheel on landing is a survivable event.   It's not infrequent and often pilot-initiated.

You might get a flat spot, though.

That must have been quite a ride. Did the plane stay on the runway?

[Gagarin]

On 10/27/2019 at 2:23 PM, Rwsavory said:

I have found that carrying a spare part in your plane insures that you will never need to use it.

Very true. It always breaks the one you do not carry.

[skykrawler]

Unfortunately the only time to get a good inspection on a wheel is when it is dissembled to change a tire or tube.   When I was in a flying club the tires were changed frequently.  I put new tires on almost 3 years ago.

EricJ,  was it a corrosion induced failure?  I don't know what wheels the early C models had but the older Cessnas had those three piece McCauley wheels with dis-similar metals.

[Hank]

My 1970 C has two-piece wheels, easy to break apart and put together. In 600+ tach hours including Instrument training and many touch and goes, I've replaced the nose tire twice and the mains once.

But I was based the first 7 years on a 3000' field where I had to back taxi and turn around for every takeoff and every landing. Wears out nose tires pretty fast. 

[Jerry Pressley]

Next time you are stranded and no tubes available....a lawn mower or wheel borrow tube fits snugly in the 600 x 6 or smaller one for nose.  perfectly safe and gets you home.  Seen a pilot lock wheels on a Cherokee at Bryson City NC and burned holes in both mans.  No ac parts within any reasonable distance. two wheel borrow tubes and a couple inside boots and safely gone home. 

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, flyer338 said:

That must have been quite a ride. Did the plane stay on the runway?

No idea.   That assembly is just laying around at our school, obviously kept around for educational purposes.   Nobody seems to know the story behind it or where it came from.   We looked up some part numbers and think it came from an A-4 Skyhawk or something similar.