KLN 94 database update

[lithium366]

Guys, I recently updated couple DB in Cessnas I used to rent and figured it is a challenge for many people

1. To re-flash $9 ImageMate with the required firmware because it can only be done under an emulation of Win 98 or ME.  (otherwise you need to pay premium for already flashed Image Mate)

2. To flash database into a storage card   

I am offering my help to anyone who struggle with a database update in a SoCal area. We can meet if you nearby or you can mail me your card and I will re-flash it for you (you will need to purchase an pudate from Honeywell) and also can help with firmware for Image Mate.

[steingar]

I've got to do this in the very near future, but it does't look like that big a deal.  Perhaps I'm mistaken.  But the steps to me seem to be

1. Get PC
2. Look up Honeywell on the internet and get to the page where they do the KLN94 downloads
3. Figure out how to pay Honeywell for the update
4. Download update
5. Save update onto ancient memory device
6. Place updated memory device into KLN94

If I'm underestimating the difficulty I"d love to know, I've only started looking into this but did find the KLN94 download page.  Don't actually know how to get the database onto the ancient memory device, but I'll bet there's some sort of "save as" command on PCs.

 

 

[carusoam]

Plenty of challenges with the antiquated memory device and poorly documented procedure...

hard to recognize when it isn’t working correctly...

If it is like the Kln90b... the procedure is to erase the data base you have...   

So... if you erase the database... and can’t load the next one on...

You have essentially bricked your favorite IFR nav device...

Need another reason to not like BK hardware?  

Yes, I bricked my Kln90b trying to update its database... because swapping out the data card was expensive and really antiquated... and wasn’t that good of an idea to continuously remove and replace from the panel...

PP thoughts only, not a blue toothed sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[lithium366]

Yes, the challenge is to actually get a card reader with a specific firmware version (or flash it yourself under an ancient Windows version) and to use an ancient software that only runs under older Windows versions too for downloading databases to the media. In the process of doing all of this figure out you can’t download databases from that ancient PC because website is using modern features not supported by an ancient PC etc. perhaps I forgot to mention that I am offering my help free of charge. I am a software engineer with 15 years experience and even for me the process was far from straightforward. Also PC is not needed. All is done in Mac using VirtualBox Windows 98 image

[steingar]

And to the OP, I might have come off sounding flippant in response to a very generous offer of assistance. I’ve been Mac based for years, and I’ve never seen anything bricked by a Mac except by catastrophic failure. But I am aware PCs have their...idiosyncrasies. I have the ancient ancient memory device programmer and an older PC inbound (it runs something called Windows XP, which I think is vintage but not ancient. I will try and post up on my progress. Sadly, the guys I knew who actually did this all retired and moved away. They could have died for all I know.

[Davidv]

The issue I had was that the software in my KLN-94 was a version that was slightly too old to allow for database updates through my PC.  Honeywell took mercy on me and shipped a card free of charge.

[lithium366]

On 10/12/2019 at 10:17 AM, steingar said:

And to the OP, I might have come off sounding flippant in response to a very generous offer of assistance. I’ve been Mac based for years, and I’ve never seen anything bricked by a Mac except by catastrophic failure. But I am aware PCs have their...idiosyncrasies. I have the ancient ancient memory device programmer and an older PC inbound (it runs something called Windows XP, which I think is vintage but not ancient. I will try and post up on my progress. Sadly, the guys I knew who actually did this all retired and moved away. They could have died for all I know.

You can do this - great, we have one more person who can help others right? I agree it's hard to break SW updating the map: worst case scenario you will need to order a new memory card from Honeywell. Let me know if you have issues (btw Windows XP SP 2 is not supported). Also you don't have to get an old PC. You can do all of this using a modern computer running VirtualBox image of an old Windows

[lithium366]

1 hour ago, Davidv said:

The issue I had was that the software in my KLN-94 was a version that was slightly too old to allow for database updates through my PC.  Honeywell took mercy on me and shipped a card free of charge.

That is a good point. 

[Niko182]

I gave up and am just sufdering til january without a database until the g3x and gnx375 go in. I tried to update it and all it did was  wipe the database on it.

[lithium366]

Just now, Niko182 said:

I gave up and am just sufdering til january without a database until the g3x and gnx375 go in. I tried to update it and all it did was  wipe the database on it.

What process did you follow?  Did you use cable or card reader? What is the firmware version of your KLN 94?

[carusoam]

Niko,

If you can, get a DB loaded on the KLN94 before she goes.... this may help with its resale value..?

Best regards,

-a-

[Davidv]

On 10/12/2019 at 10:03 PM, Niko182 said:

I gave up and am just sufdering til january without a database until the g3x and gnx375 go in. I tried to update it and all it did was  wipe the database on it.

Niko, just curious, what kind of AP is in your plane?  I have the 375 and would like to put in the G3X but I still want a functioning AP...

[Niko182]

I have an stec30. But the way its looking, not a single thing well be left in the panel avionics. A new gfc500 is going in.

[MIm20c]

4 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I have an stec30. But the way its looking, not a single thing well be left in the panel avionics. A new gfc500 is going in.

Still planning on the 750?

I agree with @carusoam about the database adding value. The 94’s are still bringing a good amount on the used market. 

[Niko182]

Just now, MIm20c said:

Still planning on the 750?

I agree with @carusoam about the database adding value. The 94’s are still bringing a good amount on the used market. 

I might do the 750 later. but as of right now the plan is
G3X 10in with EIS
PS450B
GNX375
GNC255
GTR225
GFC500 W yaw
The GTN750 was a nice option but realistically, it adds about 20k to the install, since I would remove the 375, and use a 345R. in the end, the main difference was screen size, and if we decide to install the 750, replacing the GNC255 with a 750 will be a rather minor labor intensive job in the future. My priorities are simply higher for the AP and the G3X, and the only realistic thing I lose is Vnav, which i believe anyway can be done on the G3X. install is set on Jan 4th.
 

As for the KLN94, they seem to go for a thousand bucks usually. I bought the download a couple months back so I might just try loading that onto it, and we'll see from there.

[Niko182]

I have an old Database download from end of 2018. how much would it cost for me to send the card in and have you update it?
Nik

[lithium366]

On 10/14/2019 at 4:30 PM, Niko182 said:

I have an old Database download from end of 2018. how much would it cost for me to send the card in and have you update it?
Nik

Whatever it takes for you to mail it to me and back. Also you will need to purchase an update from https://wingmanservices.bendixking.com . I don't charge anything unless you plan to do updates every month and not willing to learn how to do this on your own

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, lithium366 said:

Whatever it takes for you to mail it to me and back. Also you will need to purchase an update from https://wingmanservices.bendixking.com . I don't charge anything unless you plan to do updates every month and not willing to learn how to do this on your own

I just want to update it once. Its not being used for ifr as of right now so i dont care about it being up to date. The differences between oct 2018 and oct 2019 in the database is probably pretty minor.

[lithium366]

@Niko182 I PM-ed you

[steingar]

So, fun little update to this mini-saga.  I got the PC last night, punched up the Honeywell site, and got to the part where I pay them money.  From the looks of things they wanted $141 for a one-month subscription!  Have I got this right?

[Davidv]

22 minutes ago, steingar said:

So, fun little update to this mini-saga.  I got the PC last night, punched up the Honeywell site, and got to the part where I pay them money.  From the looks of things they wanted $141 for a one-month subscription!  Have I got this right?

You're not far off.  I forgot what I paid but even worse, the database card is something like $200-300 for just one!  As I mentioned previously, I paid somewhere around $150-200 for the download from the site before realizing I didn't have the right firmware on my device.  When I called to explain my situation they overnighted me a standard card to plug in to my unit for no extra charge (didn't pay for the card or shipping) and it worked perfectly.  I will say that despite being tone deaf in their small GA product development, their customer service is pretty good.

[steingar]

4 hours ago, Davidv said:

You're not far off.  I forgot what I paid but even worse, the database card is something like $200-300 for just one!  As I mentioned previously, I paid somewhere around $150-200 for the download from the site before realizing I didn't have the right firmware on my device.  When I called to explain my situation they overnighted me a standard card to plug in to my unit for no extra charge (didn't pay for the card or shipping) and it worked perfectly.  I will say that despite being tone deaf in their small GA product development, their customer service is pretty good.

$141/month!  Boy did I ever install the wrong box!  I thought it was $30!  I guess I'll have to update the thing for my IFR training and then ignore it thereafter.  Obviously BK isn't interested in your actually using their equipment.  That'll be the last BK product I put in my aircraft.

[Andy95W]

Database subscriptions are a racket.  Garmin isn't any better, but they do have packages that allow you to save money while you spend more money.

[LANCECASPER]

It's $481/year for 13 cycles, or $40.08 per month if downloaded on the internet. I don't think that price has changed in 20 years.

https://aerospace6.honeywell.com/api/aerofsscms.svc/document?itemid={3EEB3BA7-B679-44EF-8FAA-14A48AC82926}

 

One time database updates on any device are expensive no matter which company you're dealing with (Garmin, Jeppesen, Bendix King).

Bendix King allows you to use the 13 downloads any way you want.  When I used to own a KLN94 when the airplane was down for maintenance or times I wasn't flying I sold the one-time updates to other Mooneyspacers for $50 each.

 

[steingar]

Thanks Lance.  I just got off the phone with them and they said as much.  The yearly subscription didn't appear on their website the other night, possibly my error or possibly my antiquated web browser.  I'll give it another go tonight.  If I still can't get at it I can do it over the phone Monday.

Still new to this game, so I'll have my stumbles.  Still, nice to know I didn't install a money drain in my panel.  the numbers quoted are what I thought going in.