G5 HSI and KFC150 Autopilot

[Diesel 10]

I wanted to report on my early experience with the G5 HSI working with my legacy KFC-150.

The backstory is that I am signed up with Pacific Coast Avionics to do a GFC-500 install  with 2 G5s but that's not scheduled until October (too many ADS-B installs I guess)!  Anyway earlier this year my old HSI started to die and I appealed to PCA.  They offered to squeeze me in for the G5 HSI now ... so I wouldn't need to spend money on a legacy HSI that I would only use for a a few months.

I've only had a couple of flights so far but I have been really impressed.  The G5 and KFC-150 seem to play very well together.  The G5's GPSS (GPS Steering) is a great bonus.  It flies hold entries and holds.  I've done about 6 practice approaches (ILS and RNAV) now.  The first ones involved a couple of "learnings" but the later approaches were very smooth.

I'm looking forward to the full setup later in the year but this is not bad.

[aviatoreb]

This is very interesting - I thought the G5 was not interfacing with the King autopilots at this time.

[flyboy0681]

6 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

This is very interesting - I thought the G5 was not interfacing with the King autopilots at this time.

The G5 attitude indicator doesn't interface but the HSI does.

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

The G5 attitude indicator doesn't interface but the HSI does.

Ooooooohhhhhhh....

I wish they both did.  Doesn't seem now like G5 AI will ever interface now that they would rather sell the GFC500.

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Ooooooohhhhhhh....

I wish they both did.  Doesn't seem now like G5 AI will ever interface now that they would rather sell the GFC500.

The problem is that it kind of messes up the upgrade path.  Two G5's would be the obvious next step, but we still aren't 100% sure Garmin will add full KFC-150 support for the AI, if I understand correctly.  Then we have to wonder if the KI-300 or the AV-30 will actually work as advertised, and whether they would play well with the G5 as an HSI...

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

The problem is that it kind of messes up the upgrade path.  Two G5's would be the obvious next step, but we still aren't 100% sure Garmin will add full KFC-150 support for the AI, if I understand correctly.  Then we have to wonder if the KI-300 or the AV-30 will actually work as advertised, and whether they would play well with the G5 as an HSI...

Waiting on a KI300 seems like a poor strategy.

Upgrading to G5 could well be a partial upgrade path toward a GFC500 done incrementally.

But now that G3X seems so fantastic.

I saw one yesterday at a shop going into a Bonanza.  Two G3x screens, and a GFC500.  Looks impressive.

Last month when my KI256 went belly up  I would have gotten a G5 without a blink if it were available as a KFC200 interface.

Edited April 24, 2019 by aviatoreb

[Greg_D]

What was the total purchase and install price for that setup?

[81X]

I had this exact setup I had before the GFC500. The GPSS emulation alone made a huge difference for enroute and approach maneuvering.  

The 7 pounds of useful load increase didn’t hurt either!  

 

 

[Diesel 10]

Fingers crossed, I get my GFC500 installed in October.  As you say this is an impressive upgrade in the meantime!

[Bolter]

Another satisfied customer report, like the OP.  I have the same setup of G5 for the HSI and KAP 150 for about a year.  It has worked well, much better than the original HSI.  In my case it also showed me that what I thought was a flaky AP turned out to be flaky signal from the old HSI.  

Installed about $6k including the G5, Magnetometer, the D to A interface to connect to the AP, and the labor.  

[PTK]

On 4/24/2019 at 12:35 PM, jaylw314 said:

Two G5's would be the obvious next step, but we still aren't 100% sure Garmin will add full KFC-150 support for the AI

I don't think so.

On 4/24/2019 at 12:35 PM, jaylw314 said:

Then we have to wonder if the KI-300 or the AV-30 will actually work as advertised, and whether they would play well with the G5 as an HSI...

The KI300 is an attitude indicator and a separate component from the HSI. It does not affect the HSI. Just like the KI256 is a separate component and not part of the KCS55A compass system.

Edited May 2, 2019 by PTK

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, PTK said:

I don't think so.

The KI300 is an attitude indicator and a separate component from the HSI. It does not affect the HSI. Just like the KI256 is a separate component and not part of the KCS55A compass system.

I'm hoping that is the case, but until we see it Murphy may have something to say about it... 

[CharlesHuddleston]

So I have been reading about the dual G5’s and the Aspen. Am I reading this correctly that a dual G5 install will NOT run a KFC-150 but that an Aspen will? If I am correct, then I will be going the Aspen route (with the adapter). 

[flyingcheesehead]

2 hours ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

So I have been reading about the dual G5’s and the Aspen. Am I reading this correctly that a dual G5 install will NOT run a KFC-150 but that an Aspen will? If I am correct, then I will be going the Aspen route (with the adapter). 

Right now, the G5 does not provide the attitude reference to the KFC-150 that the KI-256, Aspen (with EA-100), or G500 TXi (with GAD 43e) does.

But... Don't do anything until Oshkosh. Word is that Garmin will have something allowing the G5 to function as an attitude source.

[HIghpockets]

My KAP 150 is on its last legs one year after a "Hail Mary" repair of one of the servos in Oklahoma. Any recommendations for a shop on the East Coast(PA, NY, NJ) that would do the install of dual G5s and the GFC 500?  I own a 88 J.  Thanks.

[carusoam]

19 hours ago, HIghpockets said:

My KAP 150 is on its last legs one year after a "Hail Mary" repair of one of the servos in Oklahoma. Any recommendations for a shop on the East Coast(PA, NY, NJ) that would do the install of dual G5s and the GFC 500?  I own a 88 J.  Thanks.

Welcome aboard HighP...

39N (Princeton) has an excellent Garmin shop, talented lead avionics guy... and has some extensive Mooney experience...

I have seen some very nice panels done for very ordinary planes...

I haven’t seen a GFC500 though... wasn’t looking either.  

Want to visit?

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

On 6/13/2019 at 5:28 AM, HIghpockets said:

My KAP 150 is on its last legs one year after a "Hail Mary" repair of one of the servos in Oklahoma. Any recommendations for a shop on the East Coast(PA, NY, NJ) that would do the install of dual G5s and the GFC 500?  I own a 88 J.  Thanks.

Dual G5's won't do it - the G5 can't replace your attitude indicator since it doesn't drive the autopilot.

[flyingcheesehead]

On 6/15/2019 at 9:38 AM, LANCECASPER said:

Dual G5's won't do it - the G5 can't replace your attitude indicator since it doesn't drive the autopilot.

You must have missed the "... and the GFC 500" part. He's ditching the KAP, so G5s will do the trick quite nicely. In fact, at least one is required... But I'll bet you knew that.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, flyingcheesehead said:

You must have missed the "... and the GFC 500" part. He's ditching the KAP, so G5s will do the trick quite nicely. In fact, at least one is required... But I'll bet you knew that.

Thanks!

[HIghpockets]

If I decide to install the GFC 500 and one G5, does it make sense to get the G5AI and keep the steam gauge King HSI? 

Thanks in advance. I haven't upgraded any avionics in a long time.

[KSMooniac]

If I decide to install the GFC 500 and one G5, does it make sense to get the G5AI and keep the steam gauge King HSI? 
Thanks in advance. I haven't upgraded any avionics in a long time.

No. GFC 500 won't interface to the old stuff at all. You'd be better doing 2x G5 at once and just bite the bullet. You'll recover some useful load and increase reliability.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

39 minutes ago, HIghpockets said:

If I decide to install the GFC 500 and one G5, does it make sense to get the G5AI and keep the steam gauge King HSI? 

Thanks in advance. I haven't upgraded any avionics in a long time.

Also look for @donkaye's thread for updates on his G500 installation...

[Desertrover]

Diesel 10, I have a bonanza with a KFC 150 AP also and have scheduled a dual G5 install but leave in my KFC 150 AP. What is your reason to upgrade to the GFC500 AP? I have considered the upgrade but my 150 works so well for my flying out west that I am having a tough time justifying the increased cost. I also need new interior and a new air conditioner as well... creature comforts that will get my family in the plane more and be happier.... soooo the savings partially covers those costs. Talk me into the GFC500 upgrade over my current KFC 150 AP.

 

[Ragsf15e]

The G5 can’t provide an attitude source for your kfc autopilot so even with 2xG5s you’ll have to keep your original attitude indicator to feed the autopilot.

G5s will only provide attitude to gfc500 autopilot.  They can also provide heading information to some legacy autopilots like stec.

[Diesel 10]

On 9/3/2019 at 9:26 PM, Desertrover said:

Diesel 10, I have a bonanza with a KFC 150 AP also and have scheduled a dual G5 install but leave in my KFC 150 AP. What is your reason to upgrade to the GFC500 AP? I have considered the upgrade but my 150 works so well for my flying out west that I am having a tough time justifying the increased cost. I also need new interior and a new air conditioner as well... creature comforts that will get my family in the plane more and be happier.... soooo the savings partially covers those costs. Talk me into the GFC500 upgrade over my current KFC 150 AP.

 

My main reason for upgrading to the GFC 500 is reliability issues with my KFC 150. A couple of years ago I had some major frustrations (and lots of $ spent) unsuccessfully  trying to diagnose some intermittent performance.  Ironically its been flawless for the last year or so but I decided I had to part ways with the KFC 150 as soon as there was a good option.  Although there are few features I'm looking forward to on the GFC500, as you know the KFC 150 is a great autopilot so if yours is reliable I agree that is harder sell to spend the money.

Rags make a good point that you'll still need your current AI with the KFC150.  I'm scheduled to get the GFC installed next month so I've been flying with the single G5 HSI and the KFC150 for several months.  The single G5 alone is an awesome upgrade for the money.