New Panel - Aspen 2000 (goodbye vacuum system)

[byrdflyr]

Panel Upgrade Plan 2018 v4.pptx

I have a pretty extensive upgrade planned - which I'm planning to do at Santa Fe Aero Services (Sante Fe, NM).  If you have experience with that shop, I'd like to hear from you.  Good, bad, other?   

I'm going to remove a lot of working instruments (all work fine except for the old Garmin GPS150), so if you're interested in any of these, take a look at the PPT attached -- the items in red below the panel graphic are being removed, and they'll be available starting about Dec. 15-30, 2018, as the work progresses.

I'm going to Aspen glass w/o vacuum system.  You can see the plan in the attached Power Point deck.  To save some money but get all the functionality I wanted, I'm making a couple of compromises. I've decided to upgrade the GNS 530 to WAAS, and the GTX 330 (mode S w/ traffic) to a GTX 345, to get ADS-B in/out with traffic and weather.  I originally planned on an IFD550 (which plugs into the GNS 530 slot with minimal labor, a stroke of genius by Avidyne because upgrading to the GTN 750 requires a lot more labor/cost to install). I'm also very impressed by the Avidyne's features and graphics.  For those needing or just wanting to upgrade from an older GNS 530, I think that's a great way to go, but upgrading my GNS to WAAS is going to be about 4k, and the IFD550 is $20k (both w/o labor), and I think most of what you get with the IFD550 is better/sharper graphics and synthetic vision (which I will get with the Aspen PFD/MFD, so don't need to spend the money on the GPS/NAV/COMM. I'm not aware of any really significant feature the IFD550 has that's missing on a GNS530W.  I know there are some Avidyne bells and whistles that make some functions easier and faster. but the data feed into the Aspens will be the same.  Am I wrong about that? 

My 231k has the 262 conversion, TKS, dual alternators, and I'd like a very capable IFR platform. Any suggestions on this plan are welcome, because there's a lot of variables, and products on the market.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Can’t you lose the steam gauges all together?

Lose the airspeed and nav indicator.

If you want super redundancy, add a G5.

[Cruiser]

How are you able to remove the Horizon ?

If the Aspen includes the GTX345 unlock, fine but you could get an L3 transponder from Aspen with no additional unlock cost.

Have you considered adding the EBB58? it is not very expensive.

[MIm20c]

Until the max system is released you need a vac or battery backup AI. However, you can remove the asi and altimeter if you buy the external battery mfd. 

Without a doubt I’d buy the refurbished idf 540 from Chase for an extra 2-3k versus upgrading your 530. (6k value 530, 4K upgrade, the refurb unit from chase or the reaper 12.5ish?)

Looks VERY nice!

Edit: you need to keep the altimeter for the encoding (altitude select). 

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

If the Aspen includes the GTX345 unlock, fine but you could get an L3 transponder from Aspen with no additional unlock cost.

The unlock fee is the same for the 345 as the Lynx.    https://aspenavionics.com/pricing

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, byrdflyr said:

I'm going to Aspen glass w/o vacuum system.  You can see the plan in the attached Power Point deck.  To save some money but get all the functionality I wanted, I'm making a couple of compromises. I've decided to upgrade the GNS 530 to WAAS, and the GTX 330 (mode S w/ traffic) to a GTX 345, to get ADS-B in/out with traffic and weather.  I originally planned on an IFD550 (which plugs into the GNS 530 slot with minimal labor, a stroke of genius by Avidyne because upgrading to the GTN 750 requires a lot more labor/cost to install). I'm also very impressed by the Avidyne's features and graphics.  For those needing or just wanting to upgrade from an older GNS 530, I think that's a great way to go, but upgrading my GNS to WAAS is going to be about 4k, and the IFD550 is $20k (both w/o labor), and I think most of what you get with the IFD550 is better/sharper graphics and synthetic vision (which I will get with the Aspen PFD/MFD, so don't need to spend the money on the GPS/NAV/COMM. I'm not aware of any really significant feature the IFD550 has that's missing on a GNS530W.  I know there are some Avidyne bells and whistles that make some functions easier and faster. but the data feed into the Aspens will be the same.  Am I wrong about that? 

Some thoughts. . .

I've owned two IFD 540's, a 440 and a 550. I've also had 530's & 430's. There is a world of difference between the 530/430 and the Avidyne IFD's.

Although the IFD550 is nice and it's what I have now, if Avidyne hadn't made me an incredible deal to swap my 540 for the 550, it wouldn't have been worth it. You get the vast majority of the features in the 540. The best deal is to buy a refurbished IFD 540 (you should be able to get one around 12000-12500)  and sell your 530 outright (roughly 6000). You are getting 21st century technology rather than putting more money into something that was introduced in 1998.

Spending $4000 on the GNS530W will increase its value from 6000 to 8000. Spending 6000 on going to the IFD540 after selling the GNS530 should at least give you dollar for dollar value on the upgrade and a lot more features and future capabilities, some of which is available right now - the IFD100 app that you can run on your iPad, built in bluetooth and wi-fi, touch screen, exocentric synthetic vision.

The next time I cut a left hand panel I am going to replace my stormscope WX-1000 with a WX-500 and have it display on my Avidyne and Aspens. I'll also flush mount my Aspens when I do the new panel.

[Cruiser]

11 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The unlock fee is the same for the 345 as the Lynx.    https://aspenavionics.com/pricing

I thought they were running a special offer that included the unlock?

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, Cruiser said:

I thought they were running a special offer that included the unlock?

It looks like there's rebates but no unlock promotion mentioned.

[KLRDMD]

2 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Without a doubt I’d buy the refurbished idf 540 from Chase for an extra 2k versus upgrading your 530. 

THIS !

[MIm20c]

46 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

It looks like there's rebates but no unlock promotion mentioned.

Since aspen is now a reseller of L3 they might be including it?

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, MIm20c said:

Since aspen is now a reseller of L3 they might be including it?

Not according to their newest price list that was posted a couple weeks ago. https://aspenavionics.com/pricing

[Marauder]

The unlock fee is the same for the 345 as the Lynx.    https://aspenavionics.com/pricing

Mine was thrown in for free when I purchased the Lynx.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[gsxrpilot]

I was in a very similar position as you a couple of years ago. As the proud owner of a very capable and efficient traveling Mooney, I wanted a rock solid IFR panel to go with it.

And so consequently did a ton of research. The result is I agree with just about all of the responses here. If you're going this far, don't stop, but finish the job.

1. Definitely don't spend money on the 530... but trade it for an IFD540 (not 550). The difference between the Garmin and the Avidyne is huge but the space between the 540 and 550 Avidyne's is not worth the cost IMO. 
2. Hold out for the MAX Aspens. Maybe you are already.
3. Remove the ASI as well. Move the Altimeter to the spot vacated by the ASI. I'd remove the second Nav head (Aspen can display multiple nav sources simultaneously). But if you want to keep the 2nd Nav head, move it up.
4. This movement allows you to mount the JPI-900 horizontally. There is one benefit there, and that is all EGT and CHT values are always displayed instead of cycling. It's nice to know at a glance without waiting for the number to come up in the cycle.

Looks great! There's nothing quite like having a great panel.

 

[Niko182]

I'd remove the ASI, the altimeter and switch it out with an L3, Garmin G5, or MC S.A.M. I would strongly recommend at doing this since I saw a video where the Pitot tube blocked up, and the Aspens just gave up completely. the complete AHRS system practically shut down.
 

I believe it happens at 11:30. If your aspens decide to do this during IMC and you dont have a backup AH, it puts you in a really bad place.

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

14 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I'd remove the ASI, the altimeter and switch it out with an L3, Garmin G5, or MC S.A.M. I would strongly recommend at doing this since I saw a video where the Pitot tube blocked up, and the Aspens just gave up completely. the complete AHRS system practically shut down.
 

I believe it happens at 11:30. If your aspens decide to do this during IMC and you dont have a backup AH, it puts you in a really bad place.

 

The new Aspen MAX isn't susceptible to this. And it's why it's certified without a standby AI.

[milotron]

10 hours ago, byrdflyr said:

 

nice looking panel.  What is the item noted as 'Rad' ?

[Bob_Belville]

12 minutes ago, milotron said:

nice looking panel.  What is the item noted as 'Rad' ?

That's the JPI's RAD (remote alert display or similar). Actually, it is not doing much and is not required when the EDM is right there below it. My 930 is above the co-pilot yoke so a RAD is located on the pilot side.

[Niko182]

pretty sure its not used on the 900. I thought it was only used on the 930, if its way out of the viewpoint.

[Marauder]

pretty sure its not used on the 900. I thought it was only used on the 930, if its way out of the viewpoint.

An indicator light is used instead on the 900. On the left side, on top.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[NJMac]

Nice plan! Wave goodbye to all your money. Wanted to add 3 things.
1) glad to see the EDM going in. You'll love that as much as any other changes.
2) I have the airgizmo ipad dock horizontally in about the same area and its honestly a waste for me. It's a cool toy for whoever is F.O. but presents me almost no functionality. If i ever redo a panel again, i surely wont waste space in the panel for the iPad dock. Just yoke or center pillar mount it.
3) if you want more help justifying the ifd540, you'd also need a fs210/510 to match the built in ifd540 functionality. It's approaching a dead wash to get the better box when you look at it this way. And ditching the dock should give you the capital to go 540.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Edited November 18, 2018 by NJMac

[flumag]

I had a similar configuration prior to the avionic upgrade. 

The AspenMAX is a must if you like to take out the backup AI (if the AspenMAX certification finally proofs that). I still had to go for a certified AI backup to the Evolution2000. It's true. If the older/ present Aspens has clocked pitot the AHRS is not useful anymore and the redundancy of the EVolution 2000 is gone as well. Thats fixed with the AspenMAX.

I also decided for the NGT9000+ and very happy with. Aspen also sells the L3 products now and you can get a good package price. Also think about the options like SV, AoA if you busy the package initially. It's not getting cheaper afterwards.

As audio panel i recommend to go to an PMA450. I was just switching from an 450A to and 450B to reduce cables for the GoPro's. So if you looking for an PMA450A .... ;-)

I also decided to leave the ADF in (flying in Africa) and put it on the Aspens. This requires and ACU2 instead of an ACU. I had also the DME staying.

The stormscope is connected directly and displayed on all Aspens and both Garmins.

As Chris I used the space of the old cluster gauge for the indicator and Aspen switches (MFD,PFD and battery). It's also a good spot for the EDM900 indicator. I had the EDM for to the right site before the upgrade but still like to  indicator there even if the the EDM is now on the pilot site. 

I also used the gone vacuum system for putting in an second ALT since this was failing me several times now (last some weeks ago). Picture is without the second ALT indicator.

I had an iPad but use it less and less. Im mainly use the 750 and do backup looks on the 660.

I also achieved a significant current drop compared to the old avionic setup. 

Hendrik

 

[byrdflyr]

On 11/17/2018 at 12:05 PM, MIm20c said:

Until the max system is released you need a vac or battery backup AI. However, you can remove the asi and altimeter if you buy the external battery mfd. 

Without a doubt I’d buy the refurbished idf 540 from Chase for an extra 2-3k versus upgrading your 530. (6k value 530, 4K upgrade, the refurb unit from chase or the reaper 12.5ish?)

Looks VERY nice!

Edit: you need to keep the altimeter for the encoding (altitude select). 

 

According to Aspen "All Evolution displays will be MAX-based.  The Aspen website says the Evolution 2000's MFD has full PFD instrument redundancy, so there's no need for the vacuum-based AI, or a separate independent electronic AI (e.g., a Garmin G5). You're right, I need to keep the Altimeter because it sends the signal to the altitude preselect system. Aspen offers a preselect system for the KFC 200, but I have a KFC 150.  I'm going to explore that, but so far, that's my understanding on the altimeter and preselect system.

As for the IFD 540 vs. upgrades GNS 530, I'm sold.  Where can I buy a reliable used IFD540?

[LANCECASPER]

55 minutes ago, byrdflyr said:

 Where can I buy a reliable used IFD540?

Or

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=150417

[byrdflyr]

21 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

That's the JPI's RAD (remote alert display or similar). Actually, it is not doing much and is not required when the EDM is right there below it. My 930 is above the co-pilot yoke so a RAD is located on the pilot side.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think the RAD (or similar redundant warning system) is mandatory with the 930, because it will continue to display MAP and RPM even if the 930's screen goes dark.  I think if you lose the 930 screen, you've got an urgent situation and should land because you lose visibility of critical engine and fuel monitoring, but the RAD will at least give you backup CHT readings, MAP and RPM. I got the impression that the RAD was mandatory if you're relying on the 930 as primary instruments.  I'll probably put it front and center above the Aspens.

[Cruiser]

30 minutes ago, byrdflyr said:

According to Aspen "All Evolution displays will be MAX-based.  The Aspen website says the Evolution 2000's MFD has full PFD instrument redundancy, so there's no need for the vacuum-based AI,

This is a statement on the new MAX page and applies to current units that can be upgraded. The current units are not MAX units. They can be sent back for upgrades.

The second statement does not mean you can remove the AI on the current units. The new MAX units will require a GPS data input which allows the removal. Current units still need a backup.

MAX units are NOT CERTIFIED yet. They are not available yet. They are expected early next year.