1/2 Pilot Thread. No IFR and Happy

[scottfromiowa]

Hey VFR pilots driving Mooneys:  Ever been told you are half a pilot?  Ever been told get your IFR ticket...you will be a "Better Pilot"?  Ever been told to "shut up" and get your ticket you lazy VFR pilot?  This is the spot for you.  What are your reasons for not getting your IFR ticket?  Do you feel inadequate by not having the certification?

 

[sleepingsquirrel]

Dang, you pot stirrer! I paid too much money to learn to fly to sit in a cockpit for hours without seeing the scenery!

If I wanted an IFR experience I would just sit in my closet and play microsoft simulations with the screen turned to dim setting and wear those foggles too! I don't do this for a living and no longer have anywhere to be or go to that badly!

I have more to say but it's lunch, the second most important meal of the day I want to fly to  LUNCH not to LAUNCH to fly 

[sleepingsquirrel]

I got married so I could feel inadequate, not having an IR just didn't do it for me.

[1964-M20E]

I do not fly for a living either and most of the time I do not have to be somewhere that bad and if I do I can drive or go commercial.

One day I intend on getting my IFR to add versatility but it also adds a higher burden of proficiency and no we are not 1/2 pilots.  The only place we can not go is above 18,000' msl and my 64 E model can't breathe well up there anyway.

 

 

[IFlyMooney]

I have been both.  The fist 7 years I was a VFR only pilot.  Went cross country many times.  I only got held up for weather 1 time for a day and a half.  The last 8 years have had my IFR ticket.  I have been held up for weather multiple times. Which is better?  I have also made trips many times that would have been commercial without the IFR capability as well.  My take is that unless you are having to fly, that the IFR ticket might be a crutch that is dangerous.  The level of proficency required to be safe flying IFR is significatly higher than VFR.  I had a good friend and his wife killed because they were casual IFR flyers.

So my take is that VFR pilots are NOT 1/2 pilots.  I know many very competitent VFR only pilots that I would fly with with no hesitation.  I also know some IFR pilots, who are current, that I would never get in a plane with if they were at the controls.

[GeorgePerry]

I don't think its a relative question of "more or less" a pilot.  I think It's a guestion of need, utility or desire.  If someone uses a plane for utilitarian transportation then an IFR ticket is a nessesity.  If someone flys for fun or the occasional VFR $200 hamberger, then having an instrument ticket isn't needed.  Lastly some will get IFR rated simply for the pride of accomplishment.  And there's nothing wrong with that. 

[flhelo]

What if your a Comm Rotary wing w/ IFR but only a VFR fixed wing, does that make me 1/4 a pilot?  BTW, I take a checkride every 6 months in the helo.

I have flown several cross country's in the plane. Got stuck for several days in Ohio. But I got to see my daughter longer than was expected so we made the most of it.(this happened twice). There were times that I had to leave the plane at home and drive 6 hours to work.

For the most part, if I don't feel comfortable or legal, I drive. This doesnt happen often.  I feel confident enough in my IFR experience/ability in the helicopter tha if I got stuck on top or suckered in that I could get the plane down safely.

[jelswick]

I have both and don't feel either makes you a full or lesser pilot.  In my humble opinion currency for your mission profile is what is needed.  I do think the IFR ticket provides a measure of safety if you inadvertantly find yourself in diminishing conditions, but if you're smart enough to stay far away from that, you should be fine just VFR.  I as a newly minted pilot stumbled into that trap using the aircraft for business transportation coming home from FL to OH (thought those talking to ATC saying marginal conditions were being honest and I just needed to get used to the same) and scared myself into starting training for the IFR ticket.  Glad I have it, but it's because it allows me to do what I want to do with the aircraft.  If your needs don't need the same, then there's nothing lesser or greater about the additional rating.

[jelswick]

I will add that I don't think there's much more fun than flying low over the overcast with the sense of speed that gives or popping in and out of broken cloud cover.  Either it's really that much fun or maybe I'm just flying too high (but within legal limits) without supplemental O2!

[KLRDMD]

Quote: scottfromiowa

Ever been told get your IFR ticket...you will be a "Better Pilot"?  Ever been told to "shut up" and get your ticket you lazy VFR pilot?  This is the spot for you. 

[DaV8or]

I immeadiatly got my IR after the PPL. I flew for years IFR and pretty much stopped flying VFR all together for a while. I got it because I wanted to know how to use all the airplane's features, use all of ATC and navigation equipment and mostly because I live on the coast and the marine layer traps you in or out a lot of the year.

Having said that, I found keeping currency to be a real chore. Sitting in a Frasca simulator or flying actual approaches under the hood with a CFII was never much fun, only sweating and agrivation at the lack of my perfection. It got to the point that I almost quit flying because I felt giving up the IR was going backwards to half a pilot and continuing on was more work than it was worth. Fortunately, reason prevailed and I let the IR go and have now flown for years as a VFR only pilot. As a renter that never really went anywhere very far or for any real reason, the IR was just too much hassle.

Fast forward to now. I bought my own plane and I intend to travel. I have decided to equip my plane for IFR flying and have now done that. I now intend to go and get current. I do not look forward to simulator or hood torture, but that's what it takes. I actually like flying IFR in all weather, it is in some ways easier with regards to flight planning. How long I stay current this time, only time will tell. If flying stops being fun again, I will let it go.

To those of you who choose to stay VFR, I totally get it. You are pilots and if you don't find yourself needing a way to get through clouds, then skip it. You will save a lot of money and time spent doing something you love rather than hold entries in simulator.

[aviatoreb]

I have 3 ratings.  VFR for when the weather is very nice.  IFR for when the weather is less nice but not sooo bad.  And CAR for when it is very bad.

[flhelo]

Quote: aviatoreb

I have 3 ratings.  VFR for when the weather is very nice.  IFR for when the weather is less nice but not sooo bad.  And CAR for when it is very bad.

[WardHolbrook]

I think that the answer to the question totally depends upon the type of flying you do and where you do it. Someone once asked Bob Hoover why he had given up instrument flying. His answer was something along the lines of something would have to suffer - either his instrument flying or his aerobatic flying. We all know which one he ended up choosing. That being said, if your main flying is limited local flights or limited cross countries for those $100 hamburgers, then I can't see where an instrument ticket would be of any use. You're not going to exercise it enough to keep current nor proficient. An instrument rating only makes sense if your flying involves a "need" to get some place. It takes a certain amount of effort to keep it up once you've got it. I don't buy into the philosophy that simply having the ratings somehow innoculates you against some future encounter with less than VMC weather. Take our fellow aviators up in Alaska. Those guys are managing to kill themselves in less than VMC CFIT accidents on a regular basis inspite the the requirement that Commercial pilots be instrument rated. Yes you can be a competent non-instrument rated pilot, but part of that competentcy would require the recognition of the need to get that instrument rating if your flying changes.     

[Vref]

Add a third tab for the European (would like to be) IFR Pilots. Regulation obstacles! The European IFR ticket is very hard too get. The theoretical knowledge level is absurd.... I am going for the ATPL exams the difference between CPl/IFR is minimal...the question bank runs into 15000 questions...aleluha...!!! You get 18 Months to study and go to class, pass rate is 75% on each of the 14 modules (7 if your IFR only)...For somebody having a full time job and a family almost not achievable..

Most all of the people are flying single engine N registered aircraft if they want to fly IFR in european airspace for business purposes!...go figure....

The flying skills between FAA and JAR are the same I believe (maybe more focus on NDB approaches) however the theoretical part....

Once you go for the real IFR flying you are confronted with the complex European ATM system of flight plan acceptance of eurocontrol CFMU (Now called Network Operations),which is not even part of the official IFR practical training

This debate is altready ongoing for years in Europe...!

Yes I would love to fly IFR in the future, to have the additional safety net in place...if my old 45 year old braincells still can absorbe everything..

[jax88]

I plan on getting my IFR this summer/fall for two reasons: I don't want to be grounded when the ceiling is a relatively benign and calm low overcast like we often get here in Texas winters, and because my flight review is due in November and I figured I may as well get an instructor to help me improve my skills leading up to the flight review.  So, except for punching through low overcast, I have no need for an IFR rating.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: Vref

Add a third tab for the European (would like to be) IFR Pilots. Regulation obstacles! The European IFR ticket is very hard too get. The theoretical knowledge level is absurd.... I am going for the ATPL exams the difference between CPl/IFR is minimal...the question bank runs into 15000 questions...aleluha...!!! You get 18 Months to study and go to class, pass rate is 75% on each of the 14 modules (7 if your IFR only)...For somebody having a full time job and a family almost not achievable..

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jax88

I plan on getting my IFR this summer/fall for two reasons: I don't want to be grounded when the ceiling is a relatively benign and calm low overcast like we often get here in Texas winters, and because my flight review is due in November and I figured I may as well get an instructor to help me improve my skills leading up to the flight review.  So, except for punching through low overcast, I have no need for an IFR rating.

[John Pleisse]

It's a great accomplishement anyone can and should achieve, especially if you like to clip along in excess of 150KTs, some of us 190KTS. It is also a statistical fact that one's chances of a fatal go down by 50% overall, down 65% night VFR with an instrument rating. Not getting it isn't lazy or downtrodden; it's not hedging your bets.

[gsengle]

Hate to stir the pot, but although it is perfectly valid to be a VFR only pilot, your capabilities are at that point a SUBSET of the capabilities of an instrument rated pilot.  And since Mooneys are fast, many of us get them to go somewhere, and once you have that mission, the ability to deal with more weather is real useful.  I find that it is the return flight that gets ya.  So yes, an instrument rating makes you more of a pilot in a real way - but so what?  All depends on your mission....  There are many ways to become more of a pilot...  aerobatics?  I may pick up rotorcraft...  It is all good as they say!

[rbridges]

I've never had anyone give me crap about not being IR, but I've had several people encourage me to get it.  I'm slooowly getting some training, but it's taking a while.  I'm not quite as motivated b/c I can fly with my family whenever the weather is nice (unlike being a student pilot).

I would like the versatility of popping through a low cloud layer, but I have no delusions of getting from point a to b during a snow storm.

[thinwing]

The one who berated me the most during my pre instrument ticket days was not another pilotbut my wife at the time who got tired of long bus rides because we both had work the following morning(coastal stratus rolling in producing a 1000 ft thick overcast @400 agl)or last minute very expensive commercial airlines ticket(return from vacation trip half way across country)or not being able to enjoy a long 4 day weekend (due to obsessive weather watching).Anyway since I usually use the a/p to travel somewhere the Ir rating was an absolute necessity....such as right now...anyone notice how wet this spring has been on the left coast....every trip has been IFR with real live approaches...without it ,I simply would have to stop flying for the last 6 months!!!....kpc 

[rob]

I'm currently a VFR pilot. This hasn't stopped me from making several flights well over 1000nm. I am a real pilot and I fly a real travelling machine. I rarely get in the airplane if not to go on at least a hour long flight. That said, I find that I drive lots of 2-3 hour drives because I am VFR only.

I don't think anyone can argue that a VFR pilot has only a portion of the skill, knowledge, and capabilites of an IFR pilot. I intend to get my IR as soon as time and finances allows. I'm confident that I will come out of that a better, and more capable, real pilot.

[knute]

I'm VFR because I love looking out the window, and I love the sense of freedom.  I frequently do flight following on long flights, but rarely does that mean they tell me where to go (unless it's a high traffic area, and that's exactly where I want them to provide the guidance!).  The other thing that makes me ponder is whether having an IFR rating would encourage me to fly in conditions that I really shouldn't- my personal minimums are pretty high, and if everything doesn't look right, I don't go up.  I don't fly for work, so every flight is a purely optional thing, and especially with a new son in my family, risk management has been on my mind quite a bit.  There's no reason for me to be more tempted to fly in conditions that invite more risk...

Having said all of that, it is my intention to get the IFR rating both to achieve a higher level of flying proficiency, and also to provide more outs in the event a VFR flight does not go to plan.  It would also be nice (living the SF Bay Area) to be able to more easily take to the skies through coastal fog layer that I otherwise have to wait out- nice clear air on top, no convective to speak of.

The stress relief I get from flying is beyond description; it amazes me on every flight I take what it feels like to be in the air and go where you want to go, adjusting trim, cross checking the instruments, coordinating all the speeds and descent rates and timing that culminate in a greaser landing.  It's a little like the zen of sailboating, only louder and not as wet.  Being told what to do with rigid courselines and waypoints takes a chunk of the fun out of it.  I think if I lived farther away from the approach and departure courses of three international airports I would really enjoy soaring- a glider rating is my future backup plan when a retirement budget doesn't like paying for an engine.

I'm hoping that work this year is the perfect combination of busy enough to provide the revenue to pay for IFR training and yet slow enough to provide the time to do that training.  We'll see!

I certainly don't feel like 1/2 a pilot- it's more an issue of recognizing the limitations and benefits of the type of flying you most like to do.

-Knute

[vasco]

This is a very interesting thread.  i am reminded that at the party to celebrate me pasing the PP check ride, my instructor burst my baloon and said, "...now when you get your IFR ticket, you will become a real pilot....".  Well i proceeded to get my IFR over the next 10 months and i am happy with that decision. 

While i love flying, when i fly, i am going somewhere.  i use my O3 almost exclusively for business.  The O3 provides outstanding utility and would she not get much excercise from me if i could only "go somewhere" on VFR days. 

i think it just depends on your mission.  i know a lot of very happy VFR pilots. Different strokes....