Ovation recog light replacment alternatives

[ArtVandelay]

Not surprising given the time of year, elves visited.
Thanks [mention=8122]LANCECASPER[/mention] for the idea and [mention=12062]Steve W[/mention] for the math, and other contributors for all the other interesting ideas.

Now that you done that, the other lights are begging to be replaced with LEDs.


Tom

[Hopsl]

does anyone have a picture of how these reflectors are secured/attached to the aircraft?

 

[pwnel]

18 hours ago, Hopsl said:

does anyone have a picture of how these reflectors are secured/attached to the aircraft?

 

You may have to grind down the backs of the new LED lights so it is square and can fit through the original hole.  

[fantom]

If anyone is interested in a new Sextant 30w LED Nav & Strobe kit, (ACS 11-11987) that I've had sitting around since I sold my plane , let me know. Original cost ~ $250.

I'll ship in the USA for $100, total.

What's in the box:

Left and right lamps, tail, two rubber gaskets, dielectric grease packet and new over-sized lens'. All bulbs are BA15 style bases. Rated power is 67 watts for all three bulbs. I don't know what the filament bulbs draw, but I'd be willing to bet 67w is in the range of one standard bulbs draw.

The bulbs are extremely easy to replace on the plane. A Philips head screwdriver was all I needed.

The bulbs have two modes, stead for night ops and flashing for day. They do not sync, but the flash is enough to get traffics attention. I had traffic call me out on approach today at two miles which is unusual when I had the flash going.

A real step up from filament bulbs and the brightness is hard to tell in the pics. They are much brighter in person.

The bulbs are TSO-C30c. 
 

If you are interested in good visual recognition, day or night, this kit delivers it a lot cheaper than other options.

Note there was some esoteric debate regarding the legality of these lights back in 2015 on an MS thread, but many A&P's sign-off on them.

 

PM me, if interested.

 

 

[MIm20c]

If the hangar elves were thinking about starting this project this fall what would be the best option for led’s?  Brighter and or more durable?

[Steve W]

I've finally begun my (probably years long) project to replicate the OEM style lights(unofficially, of course).

At least it's starting to look somewhat lamp shaped:

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Steve W

[carusoam]

Find out the Melt temp of the polymer you are working with...

Then see what temp the bulbs get...

With LEDs, you might have a good match.

With the standard lights... picture a scene from Raiders of the lost ark....  

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic.

Best regards,

-a-

[Steve W]

11 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Find out the Melt temp of the polymer you are working with...

Then see what temp the bulbs get...

This stuff works perfect, it gets nice and soft with just the 80C from the current test bulb, or if you sit it out in the sun too long.

This is my cheap/easily melted PLA stuff.

Obviously it would require a proper flame retardant/higher temperature plastic to actually be used as a lamp. Along with a reflective coating, or a bulb designed with its own integrated reflector, which is why it's a 2 piece design, for some bulbs you'd just need the base and socket, for others you'd want a reflector. The socket is a bog standard one for auto style lamps.

[Warren]

Whelen makes a LED light for their standard automotive light bars and the lights can be found on ebay for about $25. (Edit:  Search for LR11 light)

Here are a few pics.  The LED is brighter than the incandescent bulb.

Shows airplane with LED on left and incandescent on right.  Then a few pictures of before and after as well as the LED light as received and after the brackets are trimmed as well as adding a little heat shrink to protect the connection to the board.  Also need a pin removal tool and a two pin connector to replace the three pin.  Overall a pretty quick and easy project.  Only airplane mod is drilling a couple of holes and relieving two areas for the wires.  It would be easy to swap out the old bulb if anyone had any issues with the LED.  And, never have to replace the cover again — they are hardly warm when on.

Also, this is a 12V module.  Not sure if it would like 24V- maybe have to measure the current draw and put a resistor inline to drop the voltage for 24V.  Small voltage regulators (circuit boards less than 1” square) are also less than $10 and you could wire it inline and pick your voltage.

[GeeBee]

That looks very much like the 72041 ice light. If it is they make a 24 volt version.

 

 

[Hopsl]

15 hours ago, Warren said:

Whelen makes a LED light for their standard automotive light bars and the lights can be found on ebay for about $25. (Edit:  Search for LR11 light)

Here are a few pics.  The LED is brighter than the incandescent bulb.

Shows airplane with LED on left and incandescent on right.  Then a few pictures of before and after as well as the LED light as received and after the brackets are trimmed as well as adding a little heat shrink to protect the connection to the board.  Also need a pin removal tool and a two pin connector to replace the three pin.  Overall a pretty quick and easy project.  Only airplane mod is drilling a couple of holes and relieving two areas for the wires.  It would be easy to swap out the old bulb if anyone had any issues with the LED.  And, never have to replace the cover again — they are hardly warm when on.

Also, this is a 12V module.  Not sure if it would like 24V- maybe have to measure the current draw and put a resistor inline to drop the voltage for 24V.  Small voltage regulators (circuit boards less than 1” square) are also less than $10 and you could wire it inline and pick your voltage.

I can't seem to find this light for $25 on Amazon, has it been a while since you purchased?

Edited August 25, 2019 by Hopsl

[hypertech]

If you want a perfect fit, the factory lamp is a projector lamp.  You can get them pretty cheap and cut the bottom off to knock out the potting and remove the halogen lamp.  One could conceivably then epoxy in a socket and even wire onto the socket the exact same connector that is in the plane (pretty sure its just an AMP Mate-N-Lok connector).

[Warren]

5 hours ago, Hopsl said:

I can't seem to find this light for $25 on Amazon, has it been a while since you purchased?

I found it on eBay. People are selling used as taken out of light bars. Search for LR11 and Whelen. 

[Rick Junkin]

I took a different approach and found a way to fabricate a direct replacement for the Whelen recognition light that doesn't require any rewiring or part modifications using the Sylvania ERR 25W14V projector bulb as a starting point. I haven't installed it yet, but what I used and how I built it is in the attached PDF. Here are the pictures without the details. I haven't glued the reflector back onto the base yet.

I'm assuming the back of the Whelen assembly is unmodified from the ERR and just the pins from the halogen bulb - is there a different attachment mechanism on the Whelen bulb?

Cheers,
Rick

Recognition light replacement pdf.pdf

[hypertech]

It connects with a pigtail connector. It’s an amp mate n lock connector. 

[Rick Junkin]

2 hours ago, hypertech said:

It connects with a pigtail connector. It’s an amp mate n lock connector. 

Thanks! Yesterday's project was a diversion, more of a "can I do it" project to exactly duplicate the form and fit of the Sylvania ERR. I made the faulty assumption I needed to preserve the halogen bulb pins. Now I understand the attraction of using a pre-wired wedge socket, cuts the project time down to about 15 minutes.

Is the connector a standard 2 pole AMP connector? Does anyone have a picture or AMP part number? Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Rick

[PJClark]

@Junkman

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHTTSSY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

that socket slides neatly into the Maglite reflector.  I plan to insert, fill with RTV as shown below in @rogerl s photo, grind reflector to shape, grind reflector stem flat to fit in original orifice in the airplane fixture...attach with clip or RTV AR.

but I too could use some help with what connector to attach to my wire leads at the end of the socket wires. not worried about wire grade we're talking ~100 milliamps.

 

[Rick Junkin]

1 minute ago, PJClark said:

@Junkman

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHTTSSY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

Thanks PJ, I got a pack of those but didn't initially like them - now I'm reconsidering. They're a perfect fit for the existing reflector if you drill out the back of the base.

And I'm thinking that splicing to the original pigtail is the easiest answer for a one-time installation versus acquiring the tools and parts necessary to assemble the AMP connectors properly. But then again I hardly ever pass up an excuse to acquire new, expensive tools...

Cheers,
Rick

[PJClark]

Yeah, I haven't removed my originals yet, but my reflectors look pretty jank. Since I'm going for "Brighter than an August Sun in Arizona even though I live in Ohio" I figure new reflectors 

[r0ckst4r]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:20 PM, Steve W said:

I should point out that the stepdown resistor is only going to give 14V if your new LEDs are also drawing 25W. They almost certainly aren't so you're probably seeing more like 26V or so, which most decent LEDs will handle fine. 

And now... math:

E=IR E=Volts I=Amps, R=Resistance in ohms.

P=EI P=Watts

Old Light: 25W at 14V: 25=14*I: let's call it 1.8Amps

Need to drop 14V at 1.8 amps: 14=1.8*R: R= about 8 Ohms

So, the existing resistor is about 8 ohms and is dropping(P=I^2 * R) 25watts, basically the same as the light itself since it's cutting the voltage in half.

Now, we want the voltage seen across the new light, let's assume it draws 5watts, total voltage still 28V, existing resistor 8 ohms.

Mixing the formulas a bit: 28-V=I*8 5=V*I (V here is drop across the LED which depends on current since we assume it's a constant power device)

After an exercise left to the reader(mostly because I broke down and used an algebra calculator for the math) we get 26.5V across the LED, 1.5V across the resistor and 0.1875 Amps. The good thing is the resistor is now wasting only about 0.28watts and so it's really not worth digging it out.

 

 

This is correct.  The resistor basically does nothing.  Here is the current with an LED at 21.6v.

[PJClark]

To get half the original 28V voltage at the original lamp, the resistances of lamp and resistor had to match.  Since the circuit ran around 1 amp, both were about 14 Ohms.

if the circuit with the LED is going to run around .100 A (100 mA), the total resistane at 28 V is 280 Ohms.  Since that old resistor didn't change, V across that 14 Ohm resistor is now V = .100(14) = 1.4 volts.  Starting with your batter at 24V, you'd expect 22.6V at the LED.  In the ballpark. Point is, the total resistance of the circuit now makes the paltry 14 ohm of the original resistor pretty negligible, hence it's really "not doing much"--it can't "drop" 14V passing just .1 Amp.

Turns out the LEDs I bought are going to run at 7 W so my current is more like 250 mA.  But the principle still holds

[larryb]

I really like the LR11 idea. I may just do that. The only hiccup is that I have a 28V aircraft. If there were a wire between them, one could run the two lamps in series and not have to worry about stepping down the voltage. Otherwise, something like this could be used.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EFUHFDU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A34KJY2L3PSG09&psc=1

 

Larry

[hypertech]

Don’t buy a voltage converter. They aren’t fancy but that’s the kind of thing that is burning down cirrus jets. Get a part rated for 28V. It’s a better solution and also avoids needing to mount a converter. 
 

@Junkman I like the socket because it is easier but couple that with the approach of starting with the projector bulb. Then you can use the existing retainer. You will need to cut down the reflector to fit.  Generic crimpers work well enough for this application. 
 

95% sure this is the connector but do confirm and make sure it’s the right side (male vs female) before ordering anything. 
 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1-480319-0/A1410-ND/15662?utm_medium=email&utm_source=oce&utm_campaign=2443_OCE18RT&utm_content=productdetail_US&utm_cid=649882&so=57485549&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWmpZeE1XSTJObVF3TldGaCIsInQiOiJwMElqQkRCUGlYaWtDM0Q4MDNQN0Y3dXM5S0NxcEd4eGRcL0QzUEJRNTh6czVCTDk0NzB2dXhWbm4xeXR0XC80MzduT0EzZ0hSNXJrK3NFUG5vWENQUE5qRTU0Q3BGakZQWW50V2VKS21cL2ZqTWxSZU9JdEdhWHg2QkROaUhhUFFpbiJ9

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/60620-1/A1420-ND/15674?utm_medium=email&utm_source=oce&utm_campaign=2443_OCE18RT&utm_content=productdetail_US&utm_cid=649882&so=57485549&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWmpZeE1XSTJObVF3TldGaCIsInQiOiJwMElqQkRCUGlYaWtDM0Q4MDNQN0Y3dXM5S0NxcEd4eGRcL0QzUEJRNTh6czVCTDk0NzB2dXhWbm4xeXR0XC80MzduT0EzZ0hSNXJrK3NFUG5vWENQUE5qRTU0Q3BGakZQWW50V2VKS21cL2ZqTWxSZU9JdEdhWHg2QkROaUhhUFFpbiJ9

 

[Steve W]

So far for the wedge base automotive style bulbs I'd say about 75% are listed as up to 32v tolerant. Of the ones I've bought to play with so far all have survived throwing 30V at them for a long period. I also just got a 60V adjustable bench supply so I can see how high they'll really go if I get bored.

[ArtVandelay]

Don’t buy a voltage converter. They aren’t fancy but that’s the kind of thing that is burning down cirrus jets. Get a part rated for 28V. It’s a better solution and also avoids needing to mount a converter. 
 

I read it was a inverter (DC to AC)? Assuming LED lights with low current draw, a simple regulator of 1.5A or less is a pretty simple device, a single chip L7812 can handle it.