CB inflatable emergency raft - anything out there reasonably priced?

[tigers2007]

I understand that my Cheap Bast**d (CB) credentials are under review but does anyone have a recommendation for a CB-Class auto-inflatable raft? I’m planning on regularly crossing Lake Michigan at FL160 but want to be able to stay dry if I survive the water landing near shore. I don’t want to end up like the Piper driver did a few weeks ago near Mackinac Island. I’m curious if he survived the impact but not the cold water; probably cartwheeled as it was a Cherokee Six?

 

I already have several gas charged life preservers but just want the raft.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jetdriven]

Cheaper to rent than buy.. I have one

[Piloto]

I would rather get wet than toasted by AVGAS. Specially when flying at night. It is easier to be rescued by boats than by fire trucks on a hill. The priority is on prompt rescue rather than long term survival.

Besides a life jackets and life rafts a handheld marine VHF COM radio is most important. Every boat on the water and the Coast Guard is listening on CH 16.

Upon engine failure call Mayday on CH 16 on your marine radio and ask for any boats in the vicinity. Ask the boat crew to lunch flares so you can spot them. Glide  your plane toward the boat and try to ditch ahead of the boat so the crew can see you and rescue.

You may encounter several recue options so choose wisely.

José

Edited September 29, 2018 by Piloto

[Yooper Rocketman]

18 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

 

I understand that my Cheap Bast**d (CB) credentials are under review but does anyone have a recommendation for a CB-Class auto-inflatable raft? I’m planning on regularly crossing Lake Michigan at FL160 but want to be able to stay dry if I survive the water landing near shore. I don’t want to end up like the Piper driver did a few weeks ago near Mackinac Island. I’m curious if he survived the impact but not the cold water; probably cartwheeled as it was a Cherokee Six?

 

I already have several gas charged life preservers but just want the raft.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I know the life rafts are expensive but a few years after I bought my F model, I needed to pick up a customer buying a used log truck from us down in lower Michigan.  It was July and thunderstorms were concentrated over Manistique and northern lower MI.  At that time I was flying to ISQ, Beaver island, and Charlevoix to cross the lake so I was always within gliding range of land.  When I told the customer I couldn't pick him up until the next day, he threatened to back out of the deal. So.........I got some life jackets and did the straight across the water trip.  Man it shaved some time off the trip.

I later calculated the amount of fuel saved, the value of 40 minutes of less engine and aircraft time for each trip (two way time savings) and I could pay for the raft in 5 years.  I bought the double tube, fully enclosed Winslow  6 person raft and haven't looked back.  I even had it inspected several years ago, for almost half what I originally paid for it.  But then I split the cost with my mercy flight organization as they use it for lake crossings in the Bonanza during the colder times of the year as well.

Now it you were based at IMT, that might be an option too!!!!  Just saying...................

Tom

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Buying an immersion suit might be a better option if you’re flying alone.

A suit fitted to you is relatively comfortable compared to the rental “one size” suits.  You can wear the lower half and drape the torso over your seat.  

A good raft is heavy, too.  Consider how you will get a 60 pound packed raft out of the Mooney after successfully ditching.  

[ArtVandelay]

I use this , only 13lbs, I carry it on my sailboat and plane if traveling over water. But I flyover/sail in 80° water.

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Buying an immersion suit might be a better option if you’re flying alone.

A suit fitted to you is relatively comfortable compared to the rental “one size” suits.  You can wear the lower half and drape the torso over your seat.  

A good raft is heavy, too.  Consider how you will get a 60 pound packed raft out of the Mooney after successfully ditching.  

My raft is 20lbs and packs Into a 14” square. That and a couple life jackets and a 406 PLb you are all set.  Forget the VHF radio. Use a 406, it’s a proven lifesaving device. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

The OP was asking about water survival for winter flights over Lake Michigan.  

Surface water temperature averages for the past 30 years:

Temperature in degrees F.  (Source: EPA)

So when I fly over the 70F lake mid-summer life vests or a Bahamas raft will do.  

From December through April with the water around 40F a single-tube lightweight raft alone isn’t going to save you.   At 40F without a dry suit even getting into your raft is unlikely.  

Even a good ocean immersion suit will give you only a few hours survival time.   The chart illustrates why you must be wearing the suit before entering the water.

(Ref Time)

Buying cold water survival gear is not a place to practice your CB lore.  

[rbridges]

do these rafts have a pretty decent shelf life?

[jetdriven]

I’ve heard the story and maybe bunk, but I have heard that the Coast Guard has never rescued a Pilot from cold Great Lakes Waters. Like ever. That said a raft and an immersion suit gives you some chance of living while not having both gives you zero

[Emmet]

3 hours ago, jetdriven said:

My raft is 20lbs and packs Into a 14” square. That and a couple life jackets and a 406 PLb you are all set.  Forget the VHF radio. Use a 406, it’s a proven lifesaving device. 

I did a sea survival course 3 years ago which was held by a rescue helicopter pilot. He said exactly the opposite: There are so many PLBs around with false alarms that you can‘t expect a quick rescue. Also don’t expect the ships to have a 406 receiver on board. He recommended a EPIRB ( I bought one which fits nicely into my life vest) and a marine VHF as well. That is what the ships have.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Emmet

[Piloto]

1 hour ago, Emmet said:

I did a sea survival course 3 years ago which was held by a rescue helicopter pilot. He said exactly the opposite: There are so many PLBs around with false alarms that you can‘t expect a quick rescue. Also don’t expect the ships to have a 406 receiver on board. He recommended a EPIRB ( I bought one which fits nicely into my life vest) and a marine VHF as well. That is what the ships have.

Many of the big ships and yachts have marine VHF direction finders  onboard https://www.mygreenoutdoors.com/simrad-fisheries-td-l1550a-taiyo-compact-vhf-automatic-digital-direction-finder/?msclkid=e442d5cb44cd129b6b5d8e64b622f365&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brandless Queries&utm_term=4581527515574738&utm_content=All Products.

So they can spot you quickly on the water. Carry a water proof flashlight for signaling the rescue boat at night.

José

[Jerry 5TJ]

Ok, what do you boat guys say to carrying a marine vhf handheld with DSC and internal GPS?   One push of the red button and your Identification + location go out on VHF.  

DSC Radio

[ArtVandelay]

Ok, what do you boat guys say to carrying a marine vhf handheld with DSC and internal GPS?   One push of the red button and your Identification + location go out on VHF.  
DSC Radio

Not sure if they’re carried much, commercial boat owners don’t usually upgrade radios.

[thinwing]

We used to have 1 mile swims in sub 40 degree water in mountain lakes in explorer scouts.A friend who was a true CB swore by crisco ,he would slather an entire can on his body before hitting the water

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Not sure if they’re carried much, commercial boat owners don’t usually upgrade radios.

How about Morse on 2182 kHz, then?

Seriously, if you ditch in “coastal or inland waters” of the USA the USCG Rescue 21 system can hear your marine Channel 16  hail from the surface out to 20 miles.  Ditto for your one-button DSC message on Channel 70.   

 

[tigers2007]

Wait isn’t an EPIRB and 406 MHz ELT basically work off if the same technology? Also, it’s my take that if I did a water landing even in a swell that I could at least get into the raft as the bird will float for a while (reference the black & white photo).

Remember this: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2012/march/pilot/missing-and-feared-gone

An EPIRB/406 ELT would have been great for him.

Maybe I should just wear a Gumby suit...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hephaestus]

https://www.aviationsurvival.com/Winslow-Life-Raft--4-6-Super-Light-Island-Flyer-Light-PN46GASTL_p_186.html

Not cheap bastard approved, pretty sure that's worth more than my car...

But 29lbs and in terms of life insurance for a cold winter's ditching ... That's not terribly bad, I own PPE that cost more than this...

[jetdriven]

My raft is an EAM R0074. New is 3 grand and costs 1K to recert, but its charter airliner quality.  dont cheap out on this or the marine 406 PLB.

[ArtVandelay]

How about Morse on 2182 kHz, then?
Seriously, if you ditch in “coastal or inland waters” of the USA the USCG Rescue 21 system can hear your marine Channel 16  hail from the surface out to 20 miles.  Ditto for your one-button DSC message on Channel 70.   
 

I was referring only to DSC capabilities.

I would carry a basic marine VHF. It’s lightweight and inexpensive. And a water proof flashlight. The one time I cross Lake Michigan I climbed to 12000’ so I would basically be in gliding range the entire time.

[Piloto]

 

Ohh! but if you do not get rescued on time Sharky will come by and end your dilemma. That is why I emphasize on prompt recue rather long survival

 

[Marauder]

so that got me intrigued as i had never heard of sharks in the Great Lakes as they tend to be salt water creatures, so....
http://www.wglt.org/post/getting-bottom-lake-michigans-legendary-shark-attack#stream/0

Agreed prompt rescue is always best, hence the PLB   
 
 

There have been documented cases of sharks coming up the inlets in New Jersey, including a series of attacks in 1916.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Shore_shark_attacks_of_1916


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Piloto]

38 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

so that got me intrigued as i had never heard of sharks in the Great Lakes as they tend to be salt water creatures, so....

http://www.wglt.org/post/getting-bottom-lake-michigans-legendary-shark-attack#stream/0

Agreed prompt rescue is always best, hence the PLB   

 

 

No need to worry Coco is ready for you 24/7 on the water or on the beach.

José

Edited October 1, 2018 by Piloto

[Piloto]

12 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

as a reptile would he not be a tad sluggish in the cold waters of LM    Let me guess you are going to put up a brown bear next dressed as one of chris's "ladies"

[Marauder]

102 years ago    love it.  but they are also on the shore line in saltwater, not in freshwater.  i would honestly be intrigued if a shark got into LM

The Matawan Creek attacks were pretty far inland.

“During the Jersey Shore shark attacks of 1916, the creek was made infamous due to the shark attack on July 12, 1916, occurring 15 miles (25 km) from the ocean. A shark or sharks killed 11-year-old Lester Stillwell and his 24-year-old would-be rescuer Watson "Stanley" Fisher and severely injured 14-year-old Joseph Dunn later that same day.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro