New Member in Michigan

[Stephen Watkins]

Hi!  I'm thinking about buying a M305 Rocket, but would like to try one on for size.  The last time I sat in a Mooney was in 1982 when I was a skinny flight line worker in Mobile, Alabama.  

Is there anyone in this group that has a M20K @ Oakland Pontiac airport (KPTK)?  I would like to sit in the front seat and see if I still fit..

Steve Watkins

apqp.pro@gmail.com

[Mooneymite]

Welcome, Stephen.

Certainly someone not too far distant has a rocket, but there shouldn't be much difference in cockpit fit from other long body Mooneys. 

However, Like Roy Mercer, I have to ask, "How big a boy are you?"

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Steve.

Good news, you still fit!

 

You may have gained some family, so....

Add to your list...  F, J, and Ks....  These all share the same fuselage... and basic cabin geometry.

 

All pilots, no matter what size, can enjoy the Mooney....

When you add a bunch of large people to the cabin, you may run out of UL first...

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[warren.huisman]

Send me a PM. I have a J hangared at PTk.


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[Stephen Watkins]

OK, I'm a little wide too.  6'3" 300#, but given the motivation of a Mooney and an extra gallon of fuel for each 6# lost, I can do something about the weight!.  The height will not change...

During the last couple years, I have been flying a Cessna Cutlass, Cessna 182 and a Piper Cherokee six.  The Cutlass (172 with retractable gear and 180hp) was tight but do-able.

Several years ago I lost 50+ pounds and I can do it again.  I turn 60 next July and plan to hit that birthday at the same weight I was when I was 20.  (around 220 pounds).

  

Steve

 

[Marauder]

OK, I'm a little wide too.  6'3" 300#, but given the motivation of a Mooney and an extra gallon of fuel for each 6# lost, I can do something about the weight!.  The height will not change...
During the last couple years, I have been flying a Cessna Cutlass, Cessna 182 and a Piper Cherokee six.  The Cutlass (172 with retractable gear and 180hp) was tight but do-able.
Several years ago I lost 50+ pounds and I can do it again.  I turn 60 next July and plan to hit that birthday at the same weight I was when I was 20.  (around 220 pounds).
  
Steve
 

You’ll fit. I was 6’4” 295 for a while. Maybe I should qualify that “you’ll fit”. You’ll fit if you don’t have a co-pilot as big as you.



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[Stephen Watkins]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

My wife is my co-pilot...fortunately she is no where near as big as I am!

 

 

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:55 PM, Mooneymite said:

Welcome, Stephen.

Certainly someone not too far distant has a rocket, but there shouldn't be much difference in cockpit fit from other long body Mooneys. 

However, Like Roy Mercer, I have to ask, "How big a boy are you?"

You’ll fit. I was 6’4” 295 for a while. Maybe I should qualify that “you’ll fit”. You’ll fit if you don’t have a co-pilot as big as you.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

[Stephen Watkins]

Good news.  I also posted on the facebook mooney pilots group and found someone  here with a J model.  He's probably a member of this group too..

Anyway, tomorrow he may be out at the airport loading and prepping the plane for a trip on Wednesday.  He volunteered to let me sit inside.  I sure hope I can get comfortable.  

There's a nice looking 1979 Mooney M20K 305 Rocket on TAP, hopefully it has my name on it...

 

 

[carusoam]

Getting up to speed on a Rocket can be a tall order...

You want to get completely up to speed on that.  Take No short cuts...  

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:46 PM, Stephen Watkins said:

Good news.  I also posted on the facebook mooney pilots group and found someone  here with a J model.  He's probably a member of this group too..

Anyway, tomorrow he may be out at the airport loading and prepping the plane for a trip on Wednesday.  He volunteered to let me sit inside.  I sure hope I can get comfortable.  

There's a nice looking 1979 Mooney M20K 305 Rocket on TAP, hopefully it has my name on it...

 

 

Tom lives in the UP and flies a Rocket. Maybe he's familiar with that one? If only I could remember his MS handle . . . .

[BulletsRockts&MissilesOhMy]

 

On 9/12/2018 at 9:43 AM, Hank said:

Tom lives in the UP and flies a Rocket. Maybe he's familiar with that one? If only I could remember his MS handle . . . .

Hank, I think you're looking for @Yooper Rocketman

 

[Yooper Rocketman]

1 hour ago, BulletsRockts&MissilesOhMy said:

 

Hank, I think you're looking for @Yooper Rocketman

 

Yep, that would be me.  My Rocket is down for the count right now.  My 500 hour over TBO engine was determined during annual last month, while pulling a low compression cylinder for repair, to be within 100 hours of camshaft failure.  The engine is at Jewell Aviation with another two weeks before expected completion.  I have a member on this forum that has looked at it for purchase and is still very interested in it once the engine OH has been completed.  I had several other members contact me about the pending sale, even though I've never listed it, but will not play the "who will give me the most" game.  The current party has full, non-competitive, purchase option until he either buys it or declines it.  He has even had say in component OH decisions during this engine R&R.

As others have mentioned though, I highly recommend one be careful moving to a Rocket without SOME Mooney experience and plenty of transition training from an experienced Mooney instructor.  The guy I bought mine from had a brand new crank and complete engine tear down just hours before I bought it............due to a prop strike from porpoising WITH HIS FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR.

Tom

[Cruiser]

how was the impending failure determined?

[MIm20c]

On 9/18/2018 at 8:42 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

Yep, that would be me.  My Rocket is down for the count right now.  My 500 hour over TBO engine was determined during annual last month, while pulling a low compression cylinder for repair, to be within 100 hours of camshaft failure.  The engine is at Jewell Aviation with another two weeks before expected completion.  I have a member on this forum that has looked at it for purchase and is still very interested in it once the engine OH has been completed.  I had several other members contact me about the pending sale, even though I've never listed it, but will not play the "who will give me the most" game.  The current party has full, non-competitive, purchase option until he either buys it or declines it.  He has even had say in component OH decisions during this engine R&R.

As others have mentioned though, I highly recommend one be careful moving to a Rocket without SOME Mooney experience and plenty of transition training from an experienced Mooney instructor.  The guy I bought mine from had a brand new crank and complete engine tear down just hours before I bought it............due to a prop strike from porpoising WITH HIS FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR.

Tom

Please do a quick write up of your experience with Jewel. Most of the feedback has been from 180/200 hp overhauls. Nice to see you’re using them for the rocket. 

If you make it down your list of buyers send me a message and I’ll keep it in the ice bucket we call home. 

[aviatoreb]

On 9/18/2018 at 8:42 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

Yep, that would be me.  My Rocket is down for the count right now.  My 500 hour over TBO engine was determined during annual last month, while pulling a low compression cylinder for repair, to be within 100 hours of camshaft failure.  The engine is at Jewell Aviation with another two weeks before expected completion.  I have a member on this forum that has looked at it for purchase and is still very interested in it once the engine OH has been completed.  I had several other members contact me about the pending sale, even though I've never listed it, but will not play the "who will give me the most" game.  The current party has full, non-competitive, purchase option until he either buys it or declines it.  He has even had say in component OH decisions during this engine R&R.

As others have mentioned though, I highly recommend one be careful moving to a Rocket without SOME Mooney experience and plenty of transition training from an experienced Mooney instructor.  The guy I bought mine from had a brand new crank and complete engine tear down just hours before I bought it............due to a prop strike from porpoising WITH HIS FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR.

Tom

I would love to hear more about what you saw in annual specifically that suggested your cam was within 100 hrs of failure please.

[jma201]

You will fit.  I'm 6'3 300, but you will have to resign yourself to the fact you will have a two seat airplane with a 50 gal range.

[Yooper Rocketman]

17 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I would love to hear more about what you saw in annual specifically that suggested your cam was within 100 hrs of failure please.

When we had two cylinders pulled for repair (low compression) they pulled the lifters and they had evidence indicative of cam wear.  They inspected the cam and found one lobe worn through the hardness layer on the edge of the lobe, a clear start of cam failure.  It must have just started as my oil filter was spotless.  Being 500 hours over TBO and selling it, I just couldn't see NOT doing the OH.

Jewell has three Rocket engines in their shop right now for OH, so nothing they haven't done before.  What I like about them over the bigger shops is they will use my new turbo, alternator and recently OH'ed mags, where as the others insist on OH'ing very low time components.

Tom

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

When we had two cylinders pulled for repair (low compression) they pulled the lifters and they had evidence indicative of cam wear.  They inspected the cam and found one lobe worn through the hardness layer on the edge of the lobe, a clear start of cam failure.  It must have just started as my oil filter was spotless.  Being 500 hours over TBO and selling it, I just couldn't see NOT doing the OH.

Jewell has three Rocket engines in their shop right now for OH, so nothing they haven't done before.  What I like about them over the bigger shops is they will use my new turbo, alternator and recently OH'ed mags, where as the others insist on OH'ing very low time components.

Tom

Thanks for the feedback.

Do you do oil analysis?  Any indications in the oil analysis?

Otherwise, if you had not had a low compression cylinder needing to be pulled, would you have seen any other sign do you think before cam failure?

Would love to hear your experience with Jewell once the overhaul is done. 

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

When we had two cylinders pulled for repair (low compression) they pulled the lifters and they had evidence indicative of cam wear.  They inspected the cam and found one lobe worn through the hardness layer on the edge of the lobe, a clear start of cam failure.  It must have just started as my oil filter was spotless.  Being 500 hours over TBO and selling it, I just couldn't see NOT doing the OH.

Jewell has three Rocket engines in their shop right now for OH, so nothing they haven't done before.  What I like about them over the bigger shops is they will use my new turbo, alternator and recently OH'ed mags, where as the others insist on OH'ing very low time components.

Tom

I guess I would have thought if I was selling the plane, I'd reduce the asking price by the amount for a runout engine (or more) and save myself the headache of the overhaul.  After all, the buyer may want the overhaul done a different way or with different options, and he'd get to decide if it hadn't been done yet.

[Yooper Rocketman]

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I guess I would have thought if I was selling the plane, I'd reduce the asking price by the amount for a runout engine (or more) and save myself the headache of the overhaul.  After all, the buyer may want the overhaul done a different way or with different options, and he'd get to decide if it hadn't been done yet.

It WAS already reduced for a run out engine    Pretty hard to value engine at 500 over TBO.   To fix the cylinders so the new owner could fly it home would have been a total waste of money.   The serious buyer I have right now DOES HAVE SAY in the overhaul.   He’s been in on every decision to this point and knows the price is going up by the amount I put into it.  Frankly, if he doesn’t take it I will be able to get more for it than he will pay. I’ve have at least 5 others that want a call if he doesn’t take it.   Since he was willing to take it with a run out engine he’s only paying my added expenses.   Based on current markets I could clear another $5k to $10k over where he’ll be.  

Tom

 

 

 

5 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Do you do oil analysis?  Any indications in the oil analysis?

Otherwise, if you had not had a low compression cylinder needing to be pulled, would you have seen any other sign do you think before cam failure?

Oil analysis came back clean (did on my F model with an oil filter full of cam flakes too, 400 hours past TBO).  Cam failures (worn lobes anyway) are pretty benign.  Pretty hard to not find before having an in flight issue.  

Tom

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

It WAS already reduced for a run out engine    Pretty hard to value engine at 500 over TBO.   To fix the cylinders so the new owner could fly it home would have been a total waste of money.   The serious buyer I have right now DOES HAVE SAY in the overhaul.   He’s been in on every decision to this point and knows the price is going up by the amount I put into it.  Frankly, if he doesn’t take it I will be able to get more for it than he will pay. I’ve have at least 5 others that want a call if he doesn’t take it.   Since he was willing to take it with a run out engine he’s only paying my added expenses.   Based on current markets I could clear another $5k to $10k over where he’ll be.  

Ooooh, I see now.  I misunderstood, I didn't realize the buyer was involved to that extent

[DonMuncy]

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I guess I would have thought if I was selling the plane, I'd reduce the asking price by the amount for a runout engine (or more) and save myself the headache of the overhaul.  After all, the buyer may want the overhaul done a different way or with different options, and he'd get to decide if it hadn't been done yet.

I think it depends on the prospective buyers. If I were buying a plane today, I would agree wholeheartedly. But when I was buying my first plane, I probably would have preferred a plane I could buy and fly right then.

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Oil analysis came back clean (did on my F model with an oil filter full of cam flakes too, 400 hours past TBO).  Cam failures (worn lobes anyway) are pretty benign.  Pretty hard to not find before having an in flight issue.  

Tom

I don't know anything about cam failures.  What do you mean by benign?  What sort of inflight engine failure would that be that would be benign?

Other than that - so that's a bummer that it would not show up on oil until too late.

[Yooper Rocketman]

43 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I don't know anything about cam failures.  What do you mean by benign?  What sort of inflight engine failure would that be that would be benign?

Other than that - so that's a bummer that it would not show up on oil until too late.

A cam failing due to cam lobe wear is just going to start generating less power.  It won't flat out fail.    You normally determine it by finding metal in the oil filter more than any type of actual engine failure in flight.  We're jumping this thread.  Maybe I'll start a new one about the engine OH.

Tom

[aviatoreb]

3 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

A cam failing due to cam lobe wear is just going to start generating less power.  It won't flat out fail.    You normally determine it by finding metal in the oil filter more than any type of actual engine failure in flight.  We're jumping this thread.  Maybe I'll start a new one about the engine OH.

Tom

Yeah - quite right - we are jumping this thread - sorry Stephen!  I just became very intrigued by your engine issue - please do start a new thread and I will pipe up with questions over there.

Until then..Hello Stephen and welcome!