Prebuy inspection in Texas (San Antonio Area)

[koskito1]

Hi All,

I am looking at a mooney in San Antonio Area and I was wondering if someone could recommend me a mechanic with mooney experience in the San Antonio, TX area.

Thanks in advance,

Oscar

[carusoam]

It is common to fly up to Don Maxwell’s shop @KGGG (?)

For Best value make sure DMax isn’t doing all the previous maintenance already...  

More of a statement about the PPI being very independent of the prior owner’s maintenance...

Not a statement about DMax...

My plane was sold by AAA, PPI by DMax, TT by Bob Cabe... everything came out as expected...

A follow-up maintenance step was done at air-mods (MSC) in NJ.

All the players worked together with a focus on getting me in the plane that I wanted, in the condition that was agreed upon, delivered to NJ, with me getting up to speed, basic  IFR, in the plane...  what a blast! 

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

Of course to get from San Antonio or Kestrel, to Don's place at Longview, you'll have to go right over the top of Southwest Texas Aviation (SWTA) and JD's place in Smithville, TX. No disrespect to Don, but you can't go wrong with either Don or JD for a Mooney pre-buy.

[mike_elliott]

JD is booked for the next month, so is Don, so is Brian Kendrick. Like Paul Beck of weep no more, if your good at what you do, you stay busy in spite of your wanting a break every now and then.

 

[Simon]

22 minutes ago, koskito1 said:

Hi All,

I am looking at a mooney in San Antonio Area and I was wondering if someone could recommend me a mechanic with mooney experience in the San Antonio, TX area.

Thanks in advance,

Oscar

Try broadies in fort worth.

https://broadiesaircraft.com/

The did a Mooney pre-buy that was managed by Savvy. They were excellent.

They found a ton of airworthy issues.  Don Maxwell was the primary mechanic on the plane too and had just performed an annual.

Broadies saved me from buying a basket case.  The buyer claimed no pre-buy was needed because of the pedigree annual.

Not so it turned out!!

 

[MBDiagMan]

You have been given good choices, especially Maxwell, but you are asking for one near San Antone.  Although the above choices are all in Texas, they are not near San Antone.  The obvious choice near there is Dugosh Aviation, the MSC that is in Kerrville across the field from The factory.

Edited August 18, 2018 by MBDiagMan

[elimansour]

I have used Ron Fisher (at Kestrel) for a pre-buy and I thought he was very thorough and diligent.  I especially liked his accessibility and great explanations for discrepancies and their impact.  I would definitely recommend him.

[rainman]

I've had very good experiences with both Ron Fisher and Dugosh. P.M. Me if I can be of any help. I live in, and keep my plane in Boerne. Ray

[gsxrpilot]

15 hours ago, Simon said:

Try broadies in fort worth.

https://broadiesaircraft.com/

The did a Mooney pre-buy that was managed by Savvy. They were excellent.

They found a ton of airworthy issues.  Don Maxwell was the primary mechanic on the plane too and had just performed an annual.

Broadies saved me from buying a basket case.  The buyer claimed no pre-buy was needed because of the pedigree annual.

Not so it turned out!!

 

Hahahah... this post alone would be enough to keep me away from Broadies. 

Did you talk with Don about the plane? 

[MBDiagMan]

16 hours ago, Simon said:

Try broadies in fort worth.

https://broadiesaircraft.com/

The did a Mooney pre-buy that was managed by Savvy. They were excellent.

They found a ton of airworthy issues.  Don Maxwell was the primary mechanic on the plane too and had just performed an annual.

Broadies saved me from buying a basket case.  The buyer claimed no pre-buy was needed because of the pedigree annual.

Not so it turned out!!

 

Everything you read on the internet is 100% true.

[MrRodgers]

17 hours ago, carusoam said:

It is common to fly up to Don Maxwell’s shop @KGGG (?)

For Best value make sure DMax isn’t doing all the previous maintenance already...  

More of a statement about the PPI being very independent of the prior owner’s maintenance...

Not a statement about DMax...

My plane was sold by AAA, PPI by DMax, TT by Bob Cabe... everything came out as expected...

A follow-up maintenance step was done at air-mods (MSC) in NJ.

All the players worked together with a focus on getting me in the plane that I wanted, in the condition that was agreed upon, delivered to NJ, with me getting up to speed, basic  IFR, in the plane...  what a blast! 

Best regards,

-a-

I flew from Los Angeles to Longview and had Don do my pre-buy and first annual before taking delivery of my 67 M20F in Santa Monica.  I think it was a great decision. Lot's of good shops in TX for Mooney's.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Everything you read on the internet is 100% true.

I'm happy to upload the inspection report if you want to see it.

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

I'm happy to upload the inspection report if you want to see it.

I'd be interested to read it.

[Simon]

4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Hahahah... this post alone would be enough to keep me away from Broadies. 

Did you talk with Don about the plane? 

Nope, but I trust Savvy aviation who found broadies and worked with them on the inspection.

[Simon]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

I'd be interested to read it.

No prob.

Give me a day to find it...

[Simon]

20 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd be interested to read it.

@gsxrpilot

@MBDiagMan

Found it.

For any pre-buy inspection I would definitely work with Savvy again.  Can't say enough good things about working with them.

They convinced me to go with an independent inspection.

I know Maxwell has a sterling reputation, but I would have been severely burned if I just relied on that fact.

Have a look at Savvy's managed pre-buy. https://www.savvyaviation.com/

Now check out the discrepancy report and make your own minds up...

 

N1155G.pdf

Edited August 18, 2018 by Simon

[gsxrpilot]

First of all, I'm glad you're happy with the way things worked out. That's the most important thing.

I've seen dozens of pre-buy inspection reports and this one is really weak. There is no detail on any of the items. There is no note as to which discrepancies are airworthy items or are recommended items. There's also no dollar estimate to correct the discrepancies. In my opinion you didn't get much for whatever you paid for the pre-buy. 

As far as the airplane itself, we really don't know from the report whether it would be a good buy or not. Most of the items listed are very minor. Most vintage Mooneys have some surface corrosion somewhere. It usually gets cleaned off and treated at annual and then pops up somewhere else. And having a few rivets missing is nothing new either. But I'm not an A&P/AI and certainly not a Mooney specialist. So I'd rely on an expert to help me make the decision. We also don't know what Don's annual report was on this airplane. 

For anyone else reading this thread... if you're buying a plane that has a recent or the last annual done by Don Maxwell, the best thing to do before even scheduling a pre-buy, is to call and talk with Don on the phone. He'll spend time talking through everything he knows about the plane, which will be a lot. He'll also send you the report from the annual's he's done on the plane. All of this won't cost you a dime, and you'll know a hell of a lot more about the airplane.

After that call, you can then make a decision on a pre-buy inspection and who should do that. It is commonly considered best practice to have someone other than who did the last annual, do the pre-buy. But I'll still submit (after reading the report from Broadie) you're better off getting a Mooney expert to do the pre-buy. You'll get better information and will be able to make a better decision.

My first Mooney, N6XM, was purchased through AllAmerican and the pre-buy was done by Don. His report runs 8 pages and lists 40 discrepancies. Each listed as Airworthy or Recommended. He then called me to talk through the report and recommended that I buy the airplane. A little negotiation with the seller and I bought the plane. It might have turned out to be one of the nicest M20C's in the country and was certainly among the fastest if not the fastest. I sold it 400 trouble free hours later to get a 252.

Don does have a sterling reputation and it's for good reason.

Customer_Estimate_-_Work_Order-_2043-03-2014.pdf

 

[EricJ]

Maxwell did the PPI on my airplane as well, and I also got a detailed list with severity indications whether airworthiness or not,  etc.,  and estimates to complete each work item indicated.   There were a lot of "definitely can wait" items, but were flagged for buyer awareness, which is pretty much what you want in a PPI.

I have a similar view as Paul does on the attached PPI report.   The popped rivets might or might not be an issue, but without more detail or even repair cost estimates it's hard to know how any of it would actually affect a purchase decision.   Otherwise nothing jumps out as being a Big Deal without more info. 

Maxwell's shop certainly isn't perfect, but I liked the PPI process with him and would have a lot of confidence in the condition of an airplane maintained by him.   That's not to say I'd buy it and fly it away without a lot of personal attention given to it, but it does add confidence.

But every situation is different, and I'm glad this one worked out for the buyer in the end.

[LANCECASPER]

11 hours ago, Simon said:

@gsxrpilot

@MBDiagMan

Found it.

For any pre-buy inspection I would definitely work with Savvy again.  Can't say enough good things about working with them.

They convinced me to go with an independent inspection.

I know Maxwell has a sterling reputation, but I would have been severely burned if I just relied on that fact.

Have a look at Savvy's managed pre-buy. https://www.savvyaviation.com/

Now check out the discrepancy report and make your own minds up...

 

N1155G.pdf

Nothing on that pre-buy couldn't be fixed. Most of these items are nickel and dime items (in aviation terms a few hundred dollars each). The pre-buy is to know what "several thousand dollar" items need to be addressed before the purchase is completed or whether to walk away.

If you took a new Mooney that just came off of the assembly line you would find a list at least half that long.

 

Back to the topic Koskito1 - if Don Maxwell is not available in your time frame, Ron Fisher at Kestrel is honest and does good work so does David Behrens at Dugosh in Kerrville. Also PM me and I can give you the contact for another independent Mooney guy that does good work. MBDiagMan used him and was very satisfied.

[Guest]

I thought that Broadies five page terms and conditions was interesting.  If your shop needs that much defence before starting the job you might be in the wrong shop.

Clarence

[FlyingBliss]

I'm just getting started in the process of looking for a used Mooney to purchase (most likely an Ovation 2 or 3).  It sounds like there are some outstanding Mooney PPI specialists in TX.  Is there anyone of equal caliber that you'd recommend on the east coast?  I fly out of Nashua Airport in New Hampshire (KASH).  Thanks.

[LANCECASPER]

14 minutes ago, FlyingBliss said:

I'm just getting started in the process of looking for a used Mooney to purchase (most likely an Ovation 2 or 3).  It sounds like there are some outstanding Mooney PPI specialists in TX.  Is there anyone of equal caliber that you'd recommend on the east coast?  I fly out of Nashua Airport in New Hampshire (KASH).  Thanks.

The Seller will want the pre-buy reasonably close to where the airplane is located.

[Cyril Gibb]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:05 PM, Simon said:

@gsxrpilot

@MBDiagMan

Found it.

For any pre-buy inspection I would definitely work with Savvy again.  Can't say enough good things about working with them.

They convinced me to go with an independent inspection.

I know Maxwell has a sterling reputation, but I would have been severely burned if I just relied on that fact.

Have a look at Savvy's managed pre-buy. https://www.savvyaviation.com/

Now check out the discrepancy report and make your own minds up...

 

N1155G.pdf

Probably not a good idea on this blog to criticize an apparent godlike being, but a plane just out of annual with popped rivets and idle speed and mixture incorrect does raise some questions.  Truth as usual lies somewhere between the two extremes.  I’ll pull on my asbestos underwear.

 

[mike_elliott]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:25 PM, LANCECASPER said:

The Seller will want the pre-buy reasonably close to where the airplane is located.

True, and the buyer will want it done by someone they trust and knows Mooneys. If the buyer is willing to pick up all expenses including the possibility of return expenses, most sellers are agreeable to re position the plane to the buyers PPI location within reason. The cost of 2 way re-positioning sometimes lessens the buyers insistence of, say, having Dmax do a prebuy on a plane located in Seattle and the buyer located in NJ.

[StevenL757]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:09 PM, FlyingBliss said:

I'm just getting started in the process of looking for a used Mooney to purchase (most likely an Ovation 2 or 3).  It sounds like there are some outstanding Mooney PPI specialists in TX.  Is there anyone of equal caliber that you'd recommend on the east coast?  I fly out of Nashua Airport in New Hampshire (KASH).  Thanks.

Reach out to me before/as you're getting involved in this process...pls.

Steve