IFR Setup

[McMooney]

skates

21 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I appreciate the advice, but the upgrades that I have done and will do have nothing to do with increasing the resale value, they are only to benefit me and the type of flying I am doing. If I was just planning to have this pane temporarily I would change that thinking and actually probably do very little in the form of upgrades. As I am just 4 years from the last kid leaving home and my wife and I just want the plane to make regular 3-500nm trips, this one is perfect for that mission. I imagine I will be flying it until I can't fly anymore.

A GNS430 for just a little more? The ones I see are all north of $4k while I can get the KLN90B for about 15% of that. It would add enroute and non-precision GPS approaches to the planes capability which currently just has VOR/ILS capability. If I do go this route, taking into account helping my avionics guy I can have the whole thing installed for less than the price of the GNS430. The money saved on that can go to dual G5's and a digital autopilot when they become available for our planes, which while don't add WAAS or GPSS they are helpful for keeping the plane right side up.

I'm still not settled on which direction I'm going but just trying to look at and consider all the options.

this is what I basically came up with, gnc 300xl with installation is less than half the price of the 6000$ 430w.  Get all basic gps approaches and will finally be able to mark /G

 

[lamont337]

1 hour ago, McMooney said:

skates

this is what I basically came up with, gnc 300xl with installation is less than half the price of the 6000$ 430w.  Get all basic gps approaches and will finally be able to mark /G

 

Don’t forget the annunciators/CDI

[RustyNance]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:11 PM, MIm20c said:

I’m going from memory but I think the 90b has some memory issues (lack of) and it is not easy to update the database.  The only legal way to shoot approaches with the unit is to keep it updated. If I purchased a plane with it installed I’d run it till it failed for gps direct capabilities and forget about the approaches. 

 

I have the 90B in my E.  Database updates are available and aren't that expensive.  My first choice would be a WAAS capable panel mount, but the reality is with dual ILS on board I just can't justify spending the money on a WAAS capable panel mount right now.  My 90B is definitely quirky.  The menus are cumbersome and it occasionally flags the RAIM.  I can easily replace the unit with a serviceable one for about $1500.  The 530W is in my future, but several years down the road.  That being said, if I didn't have a gps already in my panel, I would probably be looking for a used 430W/530W or an Avidyne. Once you factor in the installation costs, a slightly more modern WAAS capable panel mount makes a lot of sense. 

V/R

Rusty Nance

2719W

M20E

[KLRDMD]

44 minutes ago, RustyNance said:

The 530W is in my future, but several years down the road.

I don't understand why people are considering putting a box designed and first on the market last century in their panel when the cost to add a modern one is very little more.

[jetdriven]

Some of the oldest ones are 20 years old now

[Jerry 5TJ]

6 hours ago, RustyNance said:

 .....The 530W is in my future, but several years down the road.....

Anybody have a shaky KI256 and a cranky KCS55A system they want to trade for my G500?  I’ve had it with high-resolution glass: I want to get back to basics. 

I’m also tearing out the dual GTN750s and putting in an ARN-6 ADF.  I just found one on eBay with all new tubes!  

Situational awareness is over-rated:  ADS-B In is just adding to pilot work load. Weather is what you see through the windscreen.   Traffic you don’t see simply doesn’t matter.   The tower will give me a green light as I land.   

That reminds me I need to give Idlewild Radio a call to let them know their A-N range is down: I couldn’t tune it in at all last week.  

[Andy95W]

I guess I don't understand the rationale of faulting someone who is flying behind a fully functional panel that meets his needs.

Is a G500 better?  You bet.  But it's not like airplanes are fallling out of the sky without them.

If Ken and Jerry each send me a check for $5000, I will go right out and swap my old GPS-155 for an Avidyne IFD-440.  I will even buy the indicator and do the installation myself.  

But even if they don't send me money, I won't fault their decisions to equip their airplanes the way they want.

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

I guess I don't understand the rationale of faulting someone who is flying behind a fully functional panel that meets his needs.

Not faulting him at all for not upgrading right now. Questioning why someone would put a box that was introduced over 20 years ago with only one significant upgrade since then in their airplane when there are much newer choices that will cost minimally more to buy and have installed - when he decides to do it.

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Anybody have a shaky KI256 and a cranky KCS55A system they want to trade for my G500?  I’ve had it with high-resolution glass: I want to get back to basics. 

I’m also tearing out the dual GTN750s and putting in an ARN-6 ADF.  I just found one on eBay with all new tubes!  

Situational awareness is over-rated:  ADS-B In is just adding to pilot work load. Weather is what you see through the windscreen.   Traffic you don’t see simply doesn’t matter.   The tower will give me a green light as I land.   

That reminds me I need to give Idlewild Radio a call to let them know their A-N range is down: I couldn’t tune it in at all last week.  

Just a touch condescending? Maybe I am reading your post wrong but are you implying that anyone not wanting to completely upgrade their panel to the latest and greatest doesn't care about SA, weather, traffic avoidance, etc...?

ADS-B In and weather is provided to both tablets in my plane with the $120 Stratux I built and has been very reliable for about a year and a half. My setup can't do IFR like the GTN750s but does display all the traffic, weather, charts, etc (in high resolution)... even a little purple line to follow if I can't match up the landmarks I see out my windscreen with what is on the chart.

[ArtVandelay]

Just a touch condescending? Maybe I am reading your post wrong....

I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic. I think beechtalk uses green font color to signify post is sarcasm.

[Marauder]

Anybody have a shaky KI256 and a cranky KCS55A system they want to trade for my G500?  I’ve had it with high-resolution glass: I want to get back to basics. 

I’m also tearing out the dual GTN750s and putting in an ARN-6 ADF.  I just found one on eBay with all new tubes!  

Situational awareness is over-rated:  ADS-B In is just adding to pilot work load. Weather is what you see through the windscreen.   Traffic you don’t see simply doesn’t matter.   The tower will give me a green light as I land.   

That reminds me I need to give Idlewild Radio a call to let them know their A-N range is down: I couldn’t tune it in at all last week.  

Just a touch condescending? Maybe I am reading your post wrong but are you implying that anyone not wanting to completely upgrade their panel to the latest and greatest doesn't care about SA, weather, traffic avoidance, etc...?
ADS-B In and weather is provided to both tablets in my plane with the $120 Stratux I built and has been very reliable for about a year and a half. My setup can't do IFR like the GTN750s but does display all the traffic, weather, charts, etc (in high resolution)... even a little purple line to follow if I can't match up the landmarks I see out my windscreen with what is on the chart.

You need to realize Jerry has a strange sense of humor. I have flown with him for maybe, what do you think Jerry?, 20 hours? So what you are reading his attempt at humor.

You would need to pry the glass panels out of his hands for him to give them up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[ilovecornfields]

I think the post was intended as humor, not condescension. We all have our peculiarities and I think the post was intended to convey that the technological advances that have been made in the last 20 years have contributed greatly to enchanted situational awareness, reliability and safety. I took my instrument checkride in the 90’s with an IFR certified LORAN-C. The examiner turned it off at the beginning of the checkride and said “nobody’s every going to let you use something like that on a checkride. That’s cheating.” Now that I fly around with my family I “cheat” every way I can in the interest of safety. Seeing terrain and traffic on a big screen in front of me and knowing I have triple redundant systems certainly seems worth it to me.

[Jerry 5TJ]

_{OK. I changed my post to a green font...}

[Danb]

Jerry’s just busting balls regarding the info we currently have vs what we learned on decades ago, I accepted as it being humorous from the onset, I love how touchy we’ve become, sarcasm can be funny unless taken out of context.

[Skates97]

30 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

_{OK. I changed my post to a green font...}

That gave me a laugh.

17 minutes ago, Danb said:

Jerry’s just busting balls regarding the info we currently have vs what we learned on decades ago, I accepted as it being humorous from the onset, I love how touchy we’ve become, sarcasm can be funny unless taken out of context.

I have been accused of using sarcasm more often than I should... It's hard to hear tone of voice or pick up on non-verbal cues online...

[jaylw314]

Just now, Skates97 said:

That gave me a laugh.

I have been accused of using sarcasm more often than I should... It's hard to hear tone of voice or pick up on non-verbal cues online...

 

24 minutes ago, Danb said:

I love how touchy we’ve become, sarcasm can be funny unless taken out of context.

"Sarcasm - the use of irony to mock or convey contempt."

[Danb]

Ok, Jerry,bad

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, Danb said:

Ok, Jerry,bad

No, I'm just suggesting the use of sarcasm to be funny has to be done carefully.  The green font joke was hilarious, though

[RustyNance]

Got a KCS 55 HSI in my E. To me when it fails, the decision is a no brainer.  Considering the cost of an overhaul on KCS 55, I'll most likely go with dual Garmin G5s at that time.  May have a single G5 sooner rather than later, my AI is starting to occasionally precess to a left bank. 

[Browncbr1]

@Skates97   For several years I tried to figure out a cheap route.   For a while I thought I would get a 300xl, etc.    then 430, then 430w...   finally, I realized that all of those options were not really adding enough capability/$...   finally decided on spending a few grand more and got gtn and G5’s.  Man, I’m so glad I did.  I’m so much more happy, and I think the plane holds more value if I neede to sell it if I ever go to a twin.   I really recommend, whatever gps you get, get a G5 or aspen or similar to get the most out of your gps.   If you’re able, it’s better to do it all at once.   When I spent the money to do all of it, I looked at it as a choice between buying a nice used car or panel upgrade.    I said, ok, no problem to keep driving my Lincoln another 10 years if I can be happy flying.   Who cares about driving anyway.  Isn’t that why we have planes, so we don’t have to drive!?!??

[Marauder]

59 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

@Skates97   For several years I tried to figure out a cheap route.   For a while I thought I would get a 300xl, etc.    then 430, then 430w...   finally, I realized that all of those options were not really adding enough capability/$...   finally decided on spending a few grand more and got gtn and G5’s.  Man, I’m so glad I did.  I’m so much more happy, and I think the plane holds more value if I neede to sell it if I ever go to a twin.   I really recommend, whatever gps you get, get a G5 or aspen or similar to get the most out of your gps.   If you’re able, it’s better to do it all at once.   When I spent the money to do all of it, I looked at it as a choice between buying a nice used car or panel upgrade.    I said, ok, no problem to keep driving my Lincoln another 10 years if I can be happy flying.   Who cares about driving anyway.  Isn’t that why we have planes, so we don’t have to drive!?!??

It's a tough call when the plane is fairly new to you. You may still be assessing the type of flying you will be doing and whether the plane is a long time solution for you. In my case, the major avionics upgrade came after 22 years of ownership. I agree with Browncbr1, going with the most capability you anticipate you'll need eliminates the cost with step upgrades. I remember sitting in the avionics shops discussing the GTN and the fact my 20+ year old CDIs wouldn't work with it. Started looking at the GI-106, then the G500, then the Aspens. Once you understand the capabilities, you can make the decision what will work for you. Just keep an open mind about your future needs, you may want to move something up.

Making the decision of going glass, GTN, etc. was the right call for me. I can't tell you how much of a step up it was going from VORs & CDIs to GTN GPS and Aspens with an HSI. I hear about the iPad app capabilities (I fly with one), but unless you are flying behind this glass, you'll never know there is a big upgrade from these apps. 

[gsxrpilot]

@Skates97 come out here to Texas and fly a few Mooneys with different panels. You're welcome to fly mine from the left seat and see what you think. Then over a few beers, we can talk through the pro's and con's and the decision process....  

Just wait until October, it's too hot to fly in Texas right now. The DA here in Austin might be FL200. 

[Skates97]

16 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Skates97 come out here to Texas and fly a few Mooneys with different panels. You're welcome to fly mine from the left seat and see what you think. Then over a few beers, we can talk through the pro's and con's and the decision process....  

Just wait until October, it's too hot to fly in Texas right now. The DA here in Austin might be FL200. 

I'm thinking that could turn into a very expensive trip... As they say, "You don't know what you don't know." (It's probably cheaper for me not to know )

[Marcopolo]

@Skates97,  I think the process can be done in steps as long as the upgrade is done as a whole, what I mean is kind of similar to Paul's ( @gsxrpilot) panel.  He built up the stock of items he wanted over time, saving some money or at least spending it in steps, I did the same with my panel.  This opposed to walking into an avionics shop and getting the sales pitch on what your ideas are compared to what they think you should be doing/buying could make sense to you.  But the install of the equipment needs to be done in one fail swoop to cut cost as much as possible.  Even wiring for future expectations can save some money down the road but I think installing everything you want at one time is the best course, YMMV!

 

I do believe you need to know what you want though so you can do your research in advance (as you are doing) to make sure all items are compatible and will serve your needs down the road.  If you think you will move up to a WAAS GPS at some point then save a bit longer and do it rather than installing a non-waas GPS now and then moving up later.  You will pay twice the install cost for that change, and its not cheap. 

My .02-.03

 

Ron

[Cruiser]

I would suggest you layout two scenarios the first as you describe in the initial post and the second with the Aspen Pro and a IFD440 (or some similar setup to get quotes on the install.

YOu might be surprised at the costs. If I read your intent to spend the least about required to get IFR capable. You might want to consider the pay me now or pay me more later adage.

The Aspen is upgradeable and the IFD is current technology. YOu would most likely be set for a long, long time.