1964 MOONEY M20E - FIRST TIME POTENTIAL BUY

[bill98]

Greetings Mooney Space!

 

About to turn 30 and I think I might be starting to have my first mid-life crisis. I got back into flying this year after a 7-year hiatus (thanks Congress for your 1500 rule) and hate being at the mercy of the availability of rental aircraft in the DFW area. I have my instrument rating. Doing some IFR refresher courses to get back up to speed.

 

Looking for any advice on Mooney buying + avionics upgrades. The aircraft I am currently looking at looks to be in good condition, hangared in a dry location. It has an HSI, VOR, King radios. It also has an ADS-B transponder. 

 

No GPS or Autopilot though. Looks like over the past 7 years - WAAS has become the new "must have item". 

 

Always open to flying pointers on the aircraft type. I have never flown a Mooney before. The speed + fuel efficiency really appeals to me plus the acquisition cost is significantly less than a 182 and goes faster than an Arrow.

 

If anyone wants to see the exact AC in question, just PM me (but promise not to try and buy it)

 

Thanks!

[Danb]

Great. Bill,  hopefully you’ll join our party which is in need of pilots. All Mooney’s are great examples of solid efficient fast airplanes, the great E model was in the front of the line setting the stage for speed, now comfort, being quality handcrafted.

[Jerry 5TJ]

1964 E models above SN 400 came with the PC wing leveler system which is a good half-way step towards an autopilot.  

 

 

[HRM]

Bill, of all the Mooney's, the E is the only one that is super, Super 21 that is 

The E is to the J what the Boxster is to the 911, except the E has the same engine as the J.

The back seat of an E is what drives off most potential buyers. Two kids fit fine, but that is about it. If you are a solo pilot or only fly with the boss, then an E is perfect. Flies beautifully and is fast and efficient. Frankly, you just need to fly one to understand--I am guessing that you have flown the one you are looking at. They are great IFR platforms as well and fairly easy to upgrade. Working on them is a colossal challenge, but for me that is part of the fun.

[DXB]

You will love it  - unless you need to carry 4 adults any more often than occasionally. 3 people + bags works fine, with back passenger sitting side saddle and still usually lets you carry full fuel.  If you can find one with WAAS and A/P already you will save a lot of $$, but you can also waste your life waiting for exactly the right plane. Consider airframe>engine>avionics>paint/interior in the buying decision.  If you're set on a short body Mooney, the C is worth considering also. There's tons of searchable guidance on this site regarding what to look for and how to conduct a prebuy, but I'm happy to take a look at the info on the plane. 

[gsxrpilot]

@Bob_Belville who just might be in possession of the nicest E in the country... will be along soon with a picture of four smiling adults riding in his E. 

It is true the back seat is a bit cramped for leg room. But that is really based on the height of the front seat passengers. I'm 5'10" and there was room behind my seat for an adult, but just. Any taller and there really isn't room behind you, shorter and there's plenty of room for back seaters. I also take into consideration that anyone riding in the back seat is riding for free and therefore shouldn't be complaining. (Note: this is less effective with kids who are required to ride in the back due to their familiar relationship to the front seaters.) 

I expect you'd be very happy with a nice C or E.

[1964-M20E]

the E is an excellent 2 place 4 seat aircraft.  I have had 3 adults in my E before.  I'm 6-2 so the seat behind me is not very useful.  However, the E is an excellent plane to buy.

 

As for the avionics get as much as you can when you buy it or expect to spend money upgrading  it to you liking over the years you own it.

[lamont337]

18 hours ago, bill98 said:

It also has an ADS-B transponder...

...Looks like over the past 7 years - WAAS has become the new "must have item".

What model transponder is installed? An ADS-B transponder likely has a waas position source. Required for ADS-B out but will be of no use for navigation. To verify the equipment is working properly you can pull a report here: https://adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx

A WAAS GPS navigator is usually desirable but your mission should define whether or not you actually need one. 

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Bob_Belville who just might be in possession of the nicest E in the country... will be along soon with a picture of four smiling adults riding in his E. 

 

I expect you'd be very happy with a nice C or E.

I have more than one pic...

[BKlott]

My Dad had a 1964 C model. It was a beautiful airplane. The curved rear windows have character.

One “must have” in a pre-buy is a careful and thorough search for corrosion. We’ve seen too many being scrapped for spar corrosion. Other expensive items, besides the engine and prop, are leaking fuel tanks and worn out landing gear pucks.

You’ll be hard pressed to find a certified option that will provide better cruise performance along with fuel efficiency in the same package.

 

[carusoam]

What is your goal?

You mentioned the 1500 rule... I’m not familiar...

This came up with my search...

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14838

Are you looking to buy something fly it 1500hours and sell it to move on to the next step?

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

What is your goal?

You mentioned the 1500 rule... I’m not familiar...

This came up with my search...

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14838

Are you looking to buy something fly it 1500hours and sell it to move on to the next step?

Best regards,

-a-

I think he may be referring to the 1500 hours for ATP requirement???

 

[Greg Ellis]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:29 AM, bill98 said:

Greetings Mooney Space!

 

About to turn 30 and I think I might be starting to have my first mid-life crisis. I got back into flying this year after a 7-year hiatus (thanks Congress for your 1500 rule) and hate being at the mercy of the availability of rental aircraft in the DFW area. I have my instrument rating. Doing some IFR refresher courses to get back up to speed.

 

Looking for any advice on Mooney buying + avionics upgrades. The aircraft I am currently looking at looks to be in good condition, hangared in a dry location. It has an HSI, VOR, King radios. It also has an ADS-B transponder. 

 

No GPS or Autopilot though. Looks like over the past 7 years - WAAS has become the new "must have item". 

 

Always open to flying pointers on the aircraft type. I have never flown a Mooney before. The speed + fuel efficiency really appeals to me plus the acquisition cost is significantly less than a 182 and goes faster than an Arrow.

 

If anyone wants to see the exact AC in question, just PM me (but promise not to try and buy it)

 

Thanks!

Where in the DFW area are you located?  I am at FWS (Fort Worth Spinks).  If you want to take a look at a C model sometime let me know.  

I have owned my C model for 12 years.  No autopilot and just got WAAS navigation 2 weeks ago (complete avionics overhaul for ADS-B and more).  I flew IFR for 12 years and never really needed it.  I have never needed an autopilot either but now would like one after 12 years.:)

Let me know if I can help you at all.

Welcome to the wonderful world of a Mooneys.

[NJMac]

I bought a bone stock 64 e last fall for what i thought was a decent price upfront. Thought I could update the panel as i went. I'm got over 70 grand into the plane now. Should have spent the money upfront on an E or F that was already mostly how i wanted it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

My research and experience shows a ratio of 4:1 upgrading vs purchase. An extra $10K spend up front on the purchase to get a plane equipped like you want, or $40K to do the upgrades after buying the plane.

If all the new autopilots ever hit the market with full STC's for the vintage Mooneys the market might change. But right now I would be very hesitant to spend money on a C or E that didn't have an autopilot or GPS. Mooneys can certainly be hand flown off the needles. But an autopilot and GPS sure make the traveling more enjoyable. Also the planes with those features have a much better resale value and sell quick.

[bill98]

Flew it Monday for a little bit. First time in a Mooney! Loved the responsiveness.