G1000 WAAS upgrade parts availability ending

[smccray]

2 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

Garmin earned an STC on their own for G1000 retrofit into King Airs as an example...but that is a high 6-figure product and a 50+ year production run for that market, so an easy business case for them. To do that for a few hundred piston planes with frugal owners will likely not make sense. If it did, they wouldn't be stopping production of the current WAAS units...

It sucks for us, certainly. I'm glad I don't own one. Maybe the Dynon kit will possibly offer an upgrade path. I recently noticed the GFC500 will be worked for all Mooneys except the Acclaim (and the new Ultras)...that got me head scratching a bit and I bet the fine print will also exclude all G1000 planes. The Acclaim is not listed this early because it is the only variant that only has a G1000 version.

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My take- it’s a money thing. If you have a G1000 in the plane then you have the plane for the life of the airframe.

My guess is that we’re going to see an NXI upgrade opportunity for all the old G1000 planes. Why?  Because there’s money in the upgrades. There are already rumors coming out of Textron.  That doesn’t mean that Mooney will participate, but it does mean that upgrades from the G1000 to the NXI are possible  It’s a $60k bill for a 3 screen TBM.

It all comes down to the pricing strategy- of the NXI upgrade is $50-60k, but replacing the whole panel runs $100k, decision is pretty simple.

3 hours ago, larryb said:

Seems like Garmin or some other outfit could get an STC to upgrade a G1000 panel without the airframe manufacturer participation. I wonder why that does not happen? I thought that my GTN was installed with an STC from Garmin.

No reason they couldn’t- but it would upset 1) the OEMs and 2) the avionics shops.

The OEMs, by virtue of the way the avionics and rule certificates are structured, control the avionics upgrades. They could easily let Garmin manage it, but then the OEMs loose out on some of the avionics upgrade fees.

Aircraft owners are not Garmin’s customer- Garmin wants to keep the avionics shops happy. I don’t believe Garmin is incapable of manufacturing avionics that are at least connector if not tray compatible with old avionics. Problem is then the install takes less time and the avionics shops suffer.

Ask the Garmin dealers about how there support levels are affected after allowing any shop to install the G5. Garmin is starting to further segment the market with high end avionics versus lower end avionics. My bet is that Garmin sets up a separate support department soon for repair stations and higher end Garmin dealers.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

To do that for a few hundred piston planes with frugal owners will likely not make sense. If it did, they wouldn't be stopping production of the current WAAS units...
 

You hit the nail right on the head. If G1000 Mooney owners didn't spend 10% of the airframe's value to upgrade given a wide window of opportunity to do so,  why would Garmin want to pursue that as an STC when it would be many times that amount once they factor in their costs to do so. For that matter why would Mooney want to do all of the flight testing etc ever again in the future if after all of the complaining just a few people took advantage of it. If I owned a non-waas G1000 I would be calling Don Maxwell tomorrow to beg and plead for one of the 5 kits that he put together.

[mike_elliott]

19 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

You hit the nail right on the head. If G1000 Mooney owners didn't spend 10% of the airframe's value to upgrade given a wide window of opportunity to do so,  why would Garmin want to pursue that as an STC when it would be many times that amount once they factor in their costs to do so. For that matter why would Mooney want to do all of the flight testing etc ever again in the future if after all of the complaining just a few people took advantage of it. If I owned a non-was G1000 I would be calling Don Maxwell tomorrow to beg and plead for one of the 5 kits that he put together.

For just North of 25K, Don will install one of these kits for you.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

For just North of 25K, Don will install one of these kits for you.

Yeah but once the window pass s the airframe looses a lot of value as it can never be was in the future despite being relatively a young airplane.

[VetRepp]

I'll start by expressing my complete ignorance as will be shown in my question, I ask to be educated.

This thread started as a notice of unavailability of WAAS upgrade to non- WAAS G1000's.

It seems to me that WAAS is desirable mainly for WAAS approaches and resale value.

Many of the non-WAAS G1000 Mooneys also had a stand alone STEC 55X Autopilot.

Why couldn't they get a minimalistic WAAS GPS - (like a GTN 625) and put an input selector switch to select autopilot control source - (if desired on the approach), under that condition, the G1000 will just be monitoring but the approach is controlled by the GTN 625.  Since the M20R airframes also included steam gauges - it seems it would be STC'd for it??

 

The second part of the thread seems to imply that all G1000  airplanes will now become markedly devalued with Garmin pulling support for G1000 ( did I misunderstand that) There are a lot of G1000 airplanes out there (w/ and w/o WAAS)

[jetdriven]

The G1000 is an integrated system. You’re either all in or all out. Since it’s on the type certificate that must mean you’re all in or parted out. I think you could install a standalone GTX 345 transponder perhaps to get ADS-B for legal purposes but yeah what a situation. 

[Danb]

13 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

For just North of 25K, Don will install one of these kits for you.

4 left Mike

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 6/13/2018 at 8:47 AM, smccray said:

The FAA shows 696 172S aircraft produced between 2006 and 2015- some of those are steam gauges, but I suspect most are G1000. 

All C172R and C172S models 2006 and later are all G-1000.  The G-1000 was optional in 2005.  There was no G-1000 option for C172R and C172S in 2004 and earlier.

[LANCECASPER]

On 6/13/2018 at 9:58 PM, VetRepp said:

Why couldn't they get a minimalistic WAAS GPS - (like a GTN 625) and put an input selector switch to select autopilot control source - (if desired on the approach), under that condition, the G1000 will just be monitoring but the approach is controlled by the GTN 625.  Since the M20R airframes also included steam gauges - it seems it would be STC'd for it??

I'm not sure where you would find the room on the panel for the GTN625 and a CDI indicator. Even if you could do that for $15,000 installed, it seems so much smarter to jump on a full waas for $25,000.

Many non-waas Mooney owners have been in denial about this. They had stars in their eyes when they saw the huge G1000 screens and they most likely got a deal on their airplanes since they were not waas equipped. Looking for a cheaper solution, even though none now exists, while the real solution evaporates will prove costly for close to 200 owners unless somebody amazingly finds another 195 kits laying around somewhere.

This did not have to be either. When Mooney/Garmin announced the solution awhile back,  owners should have been standing in line to do it. Garmin could have continued production of the necessary GIA 63W to meet the need. Instead only a few owners that I've heard of have done it. Garmin wisely chose to stop production since there wasn't any demand. Expecting avionics makers to keep producing something that was developed over 15 years ago when demand is near zero is not realistic. 

[buddy]

Russ, do you know if Garmin will support repairs on the GIA63W-01 if repairs are needed?

[Txbyker]

2 hours ago, buddy said:

Russ, do you know if Garmin will support repairs on the GIA63W-01 if repairs are needed?

Buddy,

I have been messaging with @Deb and he looked up my serial numbers of the GIAs and they are -20 according to his source.  Perhaps ours are still in production and are the latest vintage.

Russ

[LANCECASPER]

Yingling (Cessna Direct) still shows the  -20 model in stock. http://cessnadirect.com/011-01105-20

This one unit might be a good deal for someone possibly: https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/product_info.php?products_id=29742

or these: https://mustangaviation.com/cessna-parts/gia-63w-newly-overhauled-011-n1105-20.html

[buddy]

Thanks Russ, I checked with David and I have the -20.

[LANCECASPER]

[AJ Steynberg]

Hey Guys and Gals, so I want to dish my Cirrus for a proper plane. I am looking very seriously at a nice Ovation 3 with the older G1000. I have been following threads and sounds like a guy named Paul from Max's is mentioned as a guru for upgrades to WAAS. Any chance someone can give me contact details for Paul? 

[kortopates]

Hey Guys and Gals, so I want to dish my Cirrus for a proper plane. I am looking very seriously at a nice Ovation 3 with the older G1000. I have been following threads and sounds like a guy named Paul from Max's is mentioned as a guru for upgrades to WAAS. Any chance someone can give me contact details for Paul? 

See post #1 in this thread - Don Maxwell aviation. Don's son Paul Maxwell is whom you are referring too.


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[Danb]

Paul Maxwell at KGGG Te number at DMax is:903-643-9902 he may still have some available last quote approximately $27000, I’m not sure that’s correct I had mine done last year by Paul

[AJ Steynberg]

Thanks much appreciated

[AJ Steynberg]

Thanks Danb, assuming Paul CAN still find a unit somewhere, will that upgrade allow LPV approaches integrated in the G1000? or is there something else I need to know?  and also, can Traffic be integrated into that G1000. The plane I'm looking at has the GFC700, would appreciate some guidance here, otherwise I should be looking at an older Ovation with steam driven instruments and upgrade that panel rather. Thanks

[kortopates]

Thanks Danb, assuming Paul CAN still find a unit somewhere, will that upgrade allow LPV approaches integrated in the G1000? or is there something else I need to know?  and also, can Traffic be integrated into that G1000. The plane I'm looking at has the GFC700, would appreciate some guidance here, otherwise I should be looking at an older Ovation with steam driven instruments and upgrade that panel rather. Thanks

Yes, WAAS provides all 6 of the GPS approaches.
Don explained it as he bought up the handful of remaining GIA63w's needed - when gone thats it.

There are some limitations since the approved s/w version is only an early WAAS version at a time when many LP approaches that had an advisory glideslope (+V) where removed by the FAA by coding in a 0 for the GPA. This broke the WAAS software and even the LNAV version of these approaches were no longer available for about a year and a half on all the Garmin platforms - I think this over 5 years ago now. But this is the version of the SW that Garmin and Mooney certified.
There is a Garmin service letter that list them all if you want to review which is posted here on Mooneyspace as well.


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[peevee]

On 6/12/2018 at 12:29 PM, KSMooniac said:

He's in for a rude awakening...

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Agreed.