Seat Cam Chewed Up - Replacement Needed

[N601RX]

59 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Once again, how do you know if I or my customer didn’t comply with one of the 5 items you listed? Do you know of a conversation or e-mail I may have had with a customer prior to posting on this thread from the start? You’re making assumptions. 

Do you hold PMA? I do.  I bet not many if but a few of us on Mooneyspace hold a PMA. 

It’s easy to know. Look at your own post.

1st a post saying you were ordering a batch of them

then a post showing you had received them from your supplier and had extras offered for sale to anyone who wanted to purchase them.

At this point after you received them from your supplier it would be very difficult to make a case that a customer who purchased one of the extras parcipated in the manufacturing process in any way.  The problem is with the extras.

Also you said these change the angle of the seat.  Perhaps you can provide the calculations showing the new loading on all seat members, seatbelts and attach points at this new angle so the people buying them will know the seat will still give the the required level of safety. Seat safety is a big deal and would likely require an STC.  Do you hold an engineering degree?   I Do.  I’ll be waiting for you completed calculations showing how this new seat angle affects the loading of the structural members of the seat.  

 

[HRM]

Boys, boys, boys...

I love when I make a post, it gets misinterpreted, then it starts an FAA reg sh*tstorm. It turns out that the 'owner produced parts' reg is very loose. I sought a design that did not require CNC and I like the idea that you would need a sharp eye to tell that the knobs had been altered. I read the 'owner produced part' reg and I think both designs would pass scrutiny.

I also agree with @xcrmckenna in that it would have to take a seriously backed up inspector to find this part change, especially with my design.

 

[Sabremech]

37 minutes ago, N601RX said:

It’s easy to know. Look at your own post.

1st a post saying you were ordering a batch of them

then a post showing you had received them from your supplier and had extras offered for sale to anyone who wanted to purchase them.

At this point after you received them from your supplier it would be very difficult to make a case that a customer who purchased one of the extras parcipated in the manufacturing process in any way.  The problem is with the extras.

Also you said these change the angle of the seat.  Perhaps you can provide the calculations showing the new loading on all seat members, seatbelts and attach points at this new angle so the people buying them will know the seat will still give the the required level of safety. Seat safety is a big deal and would likely require an STC.  Do you hold an engineering degree?   I Do.  I’ll be waiting for you completed calculations showing how this new seat angle affects the loading of the structural members of the seat.  

 

Hi Mike,

There’s nothing in the owner produced parts requirements that says I can’t make 400 of these seat cams at once if I want to.

According to your list of 5 items that meet the requirement of owner produced parts, I comply with item 1 and can do that with all 400 of the parts.

Again you assume that all of the parts I produced have a different height on one of the cam lobes. Once again, you don’t know what I do or how many parts I produce. I might make two different cam lobes. Just because you read my posts you make the mistake that you know everything I’m doing.

I don’t have a problem using professionals when I need their services. Would you like to do the engineering data on the seat cams to see if it changes the loading of the seat members, seatbelts and attaching points? This way you can be assured if you purchased a set of my seat cams, that you’ll be safe.

[DonMuncy]

It is my understanding that anyone can make an owner-produced part. If the owner does any one of the 5 listed items to the person/entity doing the production, and an A&P blesses it when installing it, it is legal. And I understand the A&P only has to opine it will function as well as the original.  I will yield to someone with superior knowledge.

[N601RX]

I’m not going to continue the previous direction of this topic but will simply say that if someone has these setting on a shelf already manufactured and waiting for buyers then it would be physically impossible for an aircraft owner who wants to buy one to participate in any of the 5 steps.

Unless of course the owner steps into a time machine!

[Sabremech]

10 minutes ago, N601RX said:

I’m not going to continue the previous direction of this topic but will simply say that if someone has these setting on a shelf already manufactured and waiting for buyers then it would be physically impossible for an aircraft owner who wants to buy one to participate in any of the 5 steps.

Unless of course the owner steps into a time machine!

I have to disagree. If the owner sends me an original or a drawing and the part matches, which complies with item 1 of the 5 items, then what difference does it make when they were made? It doesn't matter. 

[HRM]

 owner produced

[DonMuncy]

10 minutes ago, N601RX said:

I’m not going to continue the previous direction of this topic but will simply say that if someone has these setting on a shelf already manufactured and waiting for buyers then it would be physically impossible for an aircraft owner who wants to buy one to participate in any of the 5 steps.

Unless of course the owner steps into a time machine!

I think I agree with you. But if you push this idea just a little, the results get pretty absurd. Say Pilot joe, calls Sabremech and says build me a set of these in accordance with the enclosed drawings. Sabremech dutifully builds a set per the drawings, and lo and behold, they look just like the ones he built for someone else. So far, it is still good. Now, if Sabremech lays the set on his bench, and his wife walks through and switches some around. Now, can he sell any of the sets to Joe, or what does he have to do? Interesting legal theories, but the practical effect is the same as what Sabremech just posted.

[N601RX]

29 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

I have to disagree. If the owner sends me an original or a drawing and the part matches, which complies with item 1 of the 5 items, then what difference does it make when they were made? It doesn't matter. 

In the interest of continuing an interesting discussion...   If the owners had sent in their part then the new part looks nothing like it. Likewise if the owner happened to have a drawing to send in the matches the modified part being sold then it seems you would have to had provided the drawing to him originally. 

[Yetti]

Evaluate it like this

1. Wings fall off

2. Start a fire above the ground

3. Going to get caught in a control and cause concern

4. Make the plane crash into a school bus full of children

5. Follow the letter of the law.

6. Follow the spirit of the law.

 

[Marauder]

This conversation reminds me of the same logic for avoiding seeing a doctor for fear of not getting your third class medical?

So, some dumb pumpkin of an owner reads this thread and decides to fly around with a faulty seat cam fearful that using Sabremech’s seat cam will get him into trouble with the FAA.

As a 27 year owner I have had produced a number of owner provided parts. Having seen David’s attention to detail in person, I am a not worried the component won’t meet the specifications of the original. Like all owner produced parts I have used, there are 3 sets of eyes on it. The guy who made it, the IA who signs off on it and ME who has the highest standards since it is my bacon in the frying pan if something goes wrong with it.




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[Marauder]

And if don’t believe me about my standards, just ask N6758N (an IA) when he works with me on my plane.

[xcrmckenna]

And if don’t believe me about my standards, just ask N6758N (an IA) when he works with me on my plane.

• Quote

[Guest]

Which is worse? Having a seat back which stays in its correct position because it’s sitting on one of David’s nicely machined parts with a slightly different knurl pattern,  or having the seat back slip backward because of an old worn out part at an inopportune time like take off?

I will hav e no issue installing the parts on Ned’s plane.

Clarence

[Marauder]

Sounds like you should come help me install the CiES fuel senders...


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Bring it on over. My attention to detail is noteworthy. Just ask N6758N, he never returns my calls anymore (jk).


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[chrixxer]

The pilot's seat in my '69 F just did this (popped into a reclined position). If I send it (them?) to LASAR for an IRAN, is that overkill? (Seats were gone over by Chino Aircraft Interiors a couple of years ago so everything else should probably be okay.) Or should I be talking to @Sabremech about having him produce me a set and get with my A&P to swap them out?

To be not grounded for the tail end of ski season, can I swap right seat to left until I can get the left seat fixed?

[Ragsf15e]

4 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

The pilot's seat in my '69 F just did this (popped into a reclined position). If I send it (them?) to LASAR for an IRAN, is that overkill? (Seats were gone over by Chino Aircraft Interiors a couple of years ago so everything else should probably be okay.) Or should I be talking to @Sabremech about having him produce me a set and get with my A&P to swap them out?

To be not grounded for the tail end of ski season, can I swap right seat to left until I can get the left seat fixed?

If @Sabremech has any more of these Id gladly send a picture of mine which is shot in exchange/purchase of a new set.  No different than sending your throttle cable to macfarlane for them to make you an owner produced part...

[carusoam]

David was around a couple hours ago...

while waiting....

Swapping seats from left to right... has been done before.

Keep an eye on what else goes with that... the seat belts may need to be flipped left to right to match the shoulder harness properly...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[kpaul]

7 hours ago, chrixxer said:

The pilot's seat in my '69 F just did this (popped into a reclined position). If I send it (them?) to LASAR for an IRAN, is that overkill? (Seats were gone over by Chino Aircraft Interiors a couple of years ago so everything else should probably be okay.) Or should I be talking to @Sabremech about having him produce me a set and get with my A&P to swap them out?

To be not grounded for the tail end of ski season, can I swap right seat to left until I can get the left seat fixed?

I just replaced mine with a set from David.  They are very well made, if he still has any, I would recommend going this route.  Temporarily, you could try filing your current cams so the flats are flat again.

My passenger seat was the biggest culprit for going into recline mode.  During the swap, it was discovered that at some point, and genius replaced the roll pin with a big cotter pin.  Needless to say I am sure that caused a good deal of my problems.  

[Sabremech]

14 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

If @Sabremech has any more of these Id gladly send a picture of mine which is shot in exchange/purchase of a new set.  No different than sending your throttle cable to macfarlane for them to make you an owner produced part...

 

14 hours ago, chrixxer said:

The pilot's seat in my '69 F just did this (popped into a reclined position). If I send it (them?) to LASAR for an IRAN, is that overkill? (Seats were gone over by Chino Aircraft Interiors a couple of years ago so everything else should probably be okay.) Or should I be talking to @Sabremech about having him produce me a set and get with my A&P to swap them out?

To be not grounded for the tail end of ski season, can I swap right seat to left until I can get the left seat fixed?

If interested in seat cams, send me an e-mail at sabremech@gmail.com to discuss options.

Thanks,

David

[SheryLoewen]

We have some good used spares at Loewens Mooney Salvage   Good used $45 each

Edited April 6, 2019 by SheryLoewen
Pricing

[chrixxer]

On 3/20/2019 at 4:46 PM, SheryLoewen said:

We have some good used spares at Loewens Mooney Salvage

How much?

[MrRodgers]

We have some good used spares at Loewens Mooney Salvage

Just had Paul Loewen replace my seats last week and I really appreciate the price and his expertise. Both my front seats were cracked in multiple places. Give them a call.


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[carusoam]

@SheryLoewen

Chrixxer is looking for you... ^^^^

Best regards,

-a-

[SheryLoewen]