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PTK

By PTK
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PTK Grand Master

PTK

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This is the email I received from BK:

Hello Peter,

The KI 300 will be available in late January of 2018. You can place orders with BendixKing dealers now. 

Best wishes and Happy New Year.

Steve

 

 

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PTK
PTK

The KI300 is designed to replace the KI25x AI. It is the only such instrument that provides attitude reference to King autopilots. In addition it's made by Sandia, the makers of the Quattro Plus. For

LANCECASPER
LANCECASPER

That's a great price! Unfortunately I don't think that includes the EA100 which allows you to get rid of the KI-256. But for another $2795 (list) you can get that. That would make it 11,895 compa

LANCECASPER
LANCECASPER

I'm wondering if King's Autopilot adaptor, the KA-310 isn't maybe a version of Aspen's EA-100. Aspen finished up King's KSN770 and got it certified for them.  Sandia who did the KI-300 for King is

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jamesm Mentor

jamesm

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Does the KI 300 have flux gate or Magnetometer or some sort of magnetic sensing device for the heading ?  or is it like the SAM backup indicator where the pull it from the ARINC 429 Bus.

Just curious.

 

James

Steve W Proficient

Steve W

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, jamesm said:

Does the KI 300 have flux gate or Magnetometer or some sort of magnetic sensing device for the heading ?  or is it like the SAM backup indicator where the pull it from the ARINC 429 Bus.

I've not seen any indication that the KI-300 has any sort of heading/course display(magnetic or GPS derived).

PTK Grand Master

PTK

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The KI300 is designed to replace the KI25x AI. It is the only such instrument that provides attitude reference to King autopilots. In addition it's made by Sandia, the makers of the Quattro Plus. For airplanes without autopilots or even for those with rate-based autopilots, the Quatro Plus is arguably the best of the best in quality and value.

I see it, thefore, as a brilliant move made by BK. They take the best electronic AI platform and have it provide autopilot reference to its own venerable and very capable autopilots. When Garmin, L3 and the rest are quick to sell us more than we need or want, and nothing of what we really need, i.e. autopilot support, BK gives us exactly what we need. Smart...very smart!

Edit:

I am strictly speaking about the digital King autopilots/FD such as my KFC150. Garmin tries to convince us to replace them for theirs. It makes “zero” sense imo to take out a digital ap only to turn around and put in another digital ap! When all we need is to remove the analog vacuum attitude, i.e. the weak link, and give the digital autopilot a digital AHRS for its attitude reference instead! It's a no brainer! 

 

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jamesm Mentor

jamesm

Posted
Posted

Playing devil's advocate.... wouldn't Garmin's and other makers digital Autopilots argument be what happens the electronic  components  reach end of life or BK   or other  autopilot manufactures decides we are no longer going to support this model of autopilot.  It is problem for us when in today's electronics industry has very quick product cycle for electronic  components which wasn't the case back in the 70's and 80's. So for today's electronics industry  I would guess something like 18 months or so for a electronic  components and then they are off to some other new and improved electronic  components.  Which of course doesn't help us when we pay $1000 and $10,000  for avionics hoping to get to 15 years life or more  out of our  avionics investment 

I would say if it is working it doesn't make sense to rip everything out to digital unless you have a cool $30K  + lying around.

just my  my way if looking at it.

  • 2 weeks later...
LANCECASPER Grand Master

LANCECASPER

Posted
Posted

I'm wondering if King's Autopilot adaptor, the KA-310 isn't maybe a version of Aspen's EA-100. Aspen finished up King's KSN770 and got it certified for them. 

Sandia who did the KI-300 for King is in Abuquerque, Aspen is in Albuquerque, who knows . . .

That would be the ultimate irony for Peter  : )

 

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MIm20c Grand Master

MIm20c

Posted
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Looks like the installed price for the ki300 w/adapter will be in the $6500 range.  Include a g5 hsi w/29b and you will probably see $10k invested in the system. Still a fair bit cheaper than the aspen with EA100. 

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Steve W Proficient

Steve W

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

The G5 attitude indicator looks so appealing for many reasons, so why can't it supply attitude information to the King autopilots?

As usual the answer is that they can if they choose to. But they probably looked at the market and decided the first step was the HSI/Heading bug stuff that they could cover a bunch of autopilots with.

For many King autopilots to be legal they probably also need the flight director integration, so instead of releasing half a solution they  either decided not to pursue it, or they are silently working on it and may someday release it. Obviously they have the capability as evidenced by the GAD43e, but it would be a hard sell if they just made that work with the G5 since it's a $5000 box. (At which point if it were available you're probably better off going with the GFC 500)

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Mark89114 Experienced

Mark89114

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Yes

Are you sure?  If that is correct, the KI-300 is what $6K and KA-310 is another $1.7K, that seems like a lot for a simple AI replacement. The BK site isn't clear to me.

 

PTK Grand Master

PTK

Posted
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Posted
On 1/8/2018 at 7:20 PM, MIm20c said:

Looks like the installed price for the ki300 w/adapter will be in the $6500 range.  Include a g5 hsi w/29b and you will probably see $10k invested in the system. Still a fair bit cheaper than the aspen with EA100. 

I wonder if pairing up the KI300/KA310 with a 7” G500txi with AHRS and battery would still enable the removal of all backups. I’d think it does because they both have their own independent battery backups and are STC’d. 

And this setup can be with or without the GAD43E. With it would provide attitude reference to the autopilot from two independent sources taking redudancy to a higher level. Add a B&C standby alternator on the vacuum pump pad and  you have an electric airplane with full redundancy.

Also is there a way to bring air data to the G5? Hey Garmin... your G5 needs air data! You sure have enough empty glass area around that small HSI to display it on!

 

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MIm20c Grand Master

MIm20c

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PTK said:

I wonder if pairing up the KI300/KA310 with a 7” G500txi with AHRS and battery would still enable the removal of all backups. I’d think it does because they both have their own independent battery backups and are STC’d. 

And this setup can be with or without the GAD43E. With it would provide attitude reference to the autopilot from two independent sources taking redudancy to a higher level. Add a B&C standby alternator on the vacuum pump pad and  you have an electric airplane with full redundancy.

Also is there a way to bring air data to the G5? Hey Garmin... your G5 needs air data! You sure have enough empty glass area around that small HSI to display it on!

 

I’m almost sure you are correct about the ki300 being a certified sole backup unit. 

Personally I wouldn’t try to have both the gad43 and ki300 Interface with the AP. Too many calibrations are needed to get the units to work correctly.  The other problem I see with the ki300 used as a backup is most BK AP’s it’s made to drive still need the encoding altimeter. That added to the secondary cdi means the only legacy gauge you are getting rid of is the ASI (the only gauge I actually like to have in analog format to see out of the corner of my eye). 

If I was going with the g500txi it would include the gad43e and L3 esi500 (with nav display)no question about it.  That would be one clean panel. 

  • 1 month later...
ShuRugal Proficient

ShuRugal

Posted
Posted
On 1/8/2018 at 7:20 PM, MIm20c said:

Looks like the installed price for the ki300 w/adapter will be in the $6500 range.  Include a g5 hsi w/29b and you will probably see $10k invested in the system. Still a fair bit cheaper than the aspen with EA100. 

Came here looking for a cost.  Avionics manufacturers sure have a funny notion of "affordable".

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