Seriously non certified repair

[Yetti]

So maybe parts that go into the heater circuit should not be plastic.  Have to run to the big town tomorrow....  Kept smelling heater fluid.  Looked over and started poking around....  the plastic parts just fell apart in my hand. The middle picture is supposed to be a T.  I was able to squash the tubing to break the rest of the plastic by gentle squeezing and it just broke up.   Pretty sure the fix will last a long time.   And for all you FAA IA/A&P Inspectors.... it is a Ford. 

[Hank]

Galvanized fitting, hose clamps, and do I see a piece of ABS behind it all???? Or is that an OEM part that was cleaned up during your work?

[RLCarter]

Had (wife's car) a 97 T-Bird, both the radiator and intake manifold were plastic. Seems to be age that gets to them, car was 12yrs old when we sold it with just north of 35k miles

[carusoam]

’05 expedition has the same T connectors in the heating system decided to leak while I was going to a funeral...

It was comforting to know I wasn't having as bad of a day as the other guy...

bought some radiator fluid, added some water... drove home...

 

Aviation connection:

Used my multi-tasking skills gained from flying a Mooney.  Looking out the window and scanning instruments at the same time. 

 

expect the alternator and battery will need some work soon.  Same decision tree as the Mooney...

got a new fuel pump for it too, clogged filter beat up the pump... all Mooney experience used to diagnose the Expedition...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

this is an 08 Expedition.  Looks like trend and Ford should issue a SB....  Battery is on the 2 year wally world maint plan.   Bad news I replaced about 3 walley world batteries in the same month. On this one the Power steering cooler and A/C cooler are in the same plastic unit that sit behind the radiator.   The powersteering Cooler started leaking.   It is a $200 unit and you have to redo the A/C Fluid.  A $30 Aux Power steering cooler off Amazon and a NAPA hose fixed that.  What no "you need an engine monitor" comments?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Yetti

[mike_elliott]

You wouldn't have this trouble if you remapped the engine to run ROP instead of LOP.

[XXX]

Does the new "T" qualify as owner produced part? Who signed your log book?

[rbridges]

Shoulda bought a chevy...

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, Chupacabra said:

Does the new "T" qualify as owner produced part? Who signed your log book?

Be sure to ground the "T" so electrolysis doesn't get it, I would get your A&P to sign it off as his/her Labor rate is more than likely a lot cheaper than your Plumbers

[carusoam]

Plastics in the underhood environment...  that is a tough place to be.

Mooney experience:  plastic gears used in magnetos.  Expect similar lifetime issues... but, add in an extra thought for the additional ozone that is present there....

Best regards,

-a-

[Dream to fly]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

this is an 08 Expedition.  Looks like trend and Ford should issue a SB....  Battery is on the 2 year wally world maint plan.   Bad news I replaced about 3 walley world batteries in the same month. On this one the Power steering cooler and A/C cooler are in the same plastic unit that sit behind the radiator.   The powersteering Cooler started leaking.   It is a $200 unit and you have to redo the A/C Fluid.  A $30 Aux Power steering cooler off Amazon and a NAPA hose fixed that.  What no "you need an engine monitor" comments?

That hose that broke is what is causing all your battery issues and cooler issues.  Make sure to replace the hose with a Ford hose and change both do not buy aftermarket.  The factory ones have a restrictor in them to prevent heater core issues.  The cooler that is leaking would be best to replace as designed.  The AC uses the balance of heat from the PS fluid to actually help cool the condenser the PS fluid can absorb a lot.  The batteries are failing because antifreeze is misting on the alternator and covering the brushes and armature this actually causes two problems the field can't energize correctly and when off the antifreeze causes an electrical path for the batteries to discharge.  Your bigger issue is to make sure you pull the coils on the passenger side and make sure coolant didn't get past them into the spark plug tunnel.  That coolant if it gets in there and vaporizes and cools over and over causes corrosion and it will pit the tubes and ruin the heads.  Just my two cents.

 

And do a coolant flush and use the Yellow global antifreeze as a replacement.  If you test yours it probably is producing around 2.0 volts DC.  To test: place your DVOM on DC scale put red lead in the antifreeze in the radiator and the black lead on the battery ground.

[Dream to fly]

Here is a part number for the condenser from Northern Factory..  This is the company that supplies all the dealers and aftermarket companies.  CD40577 $84.00

[tigers2007]

Scour RockAuto.com and don't forget their perpetual 5% off coupons available via a Google search. Even if you don't end up buying from them, they are a great source for OEM part numbers. Shipping is ASAP and not that much. I tend to price shop between RockAuto, Amazon and eBay. Autozone and Advance Auto Parts are ripoffs (unless of course you are in a pinch).

[Mark89114]

I have a 2001 corvette and I was changing the plugs and leaned against some type of vacuum hose feedback system on the intake manifold and cracked it, moved it a little more and than whole damn thing just fell apart in my hands.  Age and heat......

 

[Yetti]

The factory ones have a restrictor in them to prevent heater core issues.

 

That looks like the thing closer to the firewall.   I guess machining a billet aluminum one would be overkill.

[Tom]

15 hours ago, Yetti said:

N

Understanding that this is an auto, looking at the picture reminded me of an RV-10 crash that happened a few years ago with fatalities.  The lesson learned should be passed on to interested hangar elves. 

To help seal the connections, the RV-10 builder used RTV sealant (that ended up clogging the fuel system with loss of power, then life).

From Van's construction manual:  "When installing fluid fittings with pipe threads do not use Teflon tape. Use instead, fuel lube or equivalent pipe thread sealing paste."

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20140531X15032&ntsbno=WPR14FA218&akey=1

 

 

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

That hose that broke is what is causing all your battery issues and cooler issues.  Make sure to replace the hose with a Ford hose and change both do not buy aftermarket.  The factory ones have a restrictor in them to prevent heater core issues.  The cooler that is leaking would be best to replace as designed.  The AC uses the balance of heat from the PS fluid to actually help cool the condenser the PS fluid can absorb a lot.  The batteries are failing because antifreeze is misting on the alternator and covering the brushes and armature this actually causes two problems the field can't energize correctly and when off the antifreeze causes an electrical path for the batteries to discharge.  Your bigger issue is to make sure you pull the coils on the passenger side and make sure coolant didn't get past them into the spark plug tunnel.  That coolant if it gets in there and vaporizes and cools over and over causes corrosion and it will pit the tubes and ruin the heads.  Just my two cents.

 

And do a coolant flush and use the Yellow global antifreeze as a replacement.  If you test yours it probably is producing around 2.0 volts DC.  To test: place your DVOM on DC scale put red lead in the antifreeze in the radiator and the black lead on the battery ground.

Man those American cars are a lot of trouble, my Honda has onyl required brakes and tires in its 110K miles, the BMW just a bit more.

[jetdriven]

26 minutes ago, Tom said:

Understanding that this is an auto, looking at the picture reminded me of an RV-10 crash that happened a few years ago with fatalities.  The lesson learned should be passed on to interested hangar elves. 

To help seal the connections, the RV-10 builder used RTV sealant (that ended up clogging the fuel system with loss of power, then life).

From Van's construction manual:  "When installing fluid fittings with pipe threads do not use Teflon tape. Use instead, fuel lube or equivalent pipe thread sealing paste."

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20140531X15032&ntsbno=WPR14FA218&akey=1

 

 

all we have ever used was Permatex #3 Aviation Sealer. Its fuel soluble yet somehow seals hydrocarbons from NPT threads also.

[Dream to fly]

I have yet to see an industry where the general public has not screwed it up royally with their quick simple cheap easy and best repairs.  

[flyboy0681]

I think everyone has a horror story of plastic being used in a critical place. My own is on my Chrysler Pacifica, one day I went to place the floor shift into drive and it wouldn't budge. Thinking it was the interlock, I placed a key in the slot but nada. After trying to get it into drive for a half hour I finally called Triple A to tow it to my local guy. Turned out to be a piece of plastic in the shift lever assembly that broke in two. The new part was cheap enough at $80 from Chrysler, but the three hour job of removing part of the dashboard and seats added up to major bucks.

I'll never understand why manufacturers, whether cars or planes or boats, use plastic in very critical areas. And it simply can't be cost alone.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

I'll never understand why manufacturers, whether cars or planes or boats, use plastic in very critical areas. And it simply can't be cost alone.

Cost is a major driver. If you sell 250,000 cars each year and can replace a machined metal part and a couple of fasteners with one molded plastic part, it can total a dollar per car easily [for a small part] or more [several dollars each for larger parts; don't forget to include labor savings during assembly]. This applies to just about all manufacturing operations.    I've been in injection molding for 28 years . . . One molded TV case replaced seventeen metal parts plus fasteners, and saved beaucoup bucks for the manufacturer [we just supplied molded parts to everyone!].

A second driver for metal-to-plastic conversion in automobiles is weight. The lighter the car, the better the gas mileage, and that does two things for the manufacturer:  1) helps meet ever-increasing CAFE mileage requirements; 2) higher mileage cars tend to sell better, or at least gain advertising points against the competition. It's amazing how little weight reduction is required for a 1 mpg improvement in the test.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

I'll never understand why manufacturers, whether cars or planes or boats, use plastic in very critical areas. And it simply can't be cost alone.

With the auto makers it's also weight, so that they can meet their CAFE standards.   Combined weight and cost advantages are hard to overcome.

[flyboy0681]

Your points are well taken, and plastic should be used whenever possible to save on weight, but on parts that weigh next to nothing (if made from metal) and would render the vehicle completely immobile?

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

Your points are well taken, and plastic should be used whenever possible to save on weight, but on parts that weigh next to nothing (if made from metal) and would render the vehicle completely immobile?

Another advantage of plastic is that it doesn't corrode.   In a cooling system this can be an issue for longevity especially depending on the environment and maintenance history.   It's not an obvious way to go.

[Yetti]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

Understanding that this is an auto, looking at the picture reminded me of an RV-10 crash that happened a few years ago with fatalities.  The lesson learned should be passed on to interested hangar elves. 

To help seal the connections, the RV-10 builder used RTV sealant (that ended up clogging the fuel system with loss of power, then life).

From Van's construction manual:  "When installing fluid fittings with pipe threads do not use Teflon tape. Use instead, fuel lube or equivalent pipe thread sealing paste."

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20140531X15032&ntsbno=WPR14FA218&akey=1

 

 

Not that I would use for fittings that don't require it, but there is a use for teflon tape and a proper way to apply it.   Most people don't apply it properly so it gets a bad wrap.

If you don't know that gasoline and RTV are not good together you should not build a kit plane.