Insurance scrapping newer mooneys

[Jerry Pressley]

Lately the insurance companies are removing the data plates from damaged ovation,  M20TN and other makes.  They are sending the data plates back to the manufacturer.  This totally scraps the plane.  An example is an Ovation 3 which a hangar door was blown into it damaging the spinner and cowling along with bottom of rudder. Flap caught the corner of the t hangar. A week would have been necessary to repair if parts were on hand. Also a near new piper arrow 201 and turbo Cessna 182.  Guess the factory is happy to be out from under the liability and sell another new plane.  Personally I think the ins companies are cutting their own throaty by removing planers from the fleet.  Or is an example of kids coming out of college and making these stupid decisions?

[HRM]

My guess is that this has to do with actuarial issues. Hard to understand unless you are an actuary.

[larryb]

If the spinner is damaged isn't that considered a prop strike requiring an engine tear down?

[MB65E]

That's nuts!! I get the lawyer thing but it's a shame.

When UAL pulled their depo maintenance out of Indy,  an old employer worked there at the time.  There was a police escorted congo line of dump trucks filled with shop equiptment headed to the dump. Everything was tossed that was in the hangars. He tried to salavge stuff but couldn't get much. This was the approach their lawyers took...and that was just for shop Equiptment!! The insurance companies and underwriters already rule the world. One less airplane= one less lawsuit is probably their position. 

Jerry, you still provide a decent service to the Mooney community!

Thanks,

-Matt

[thinwing]

Interesting...these must be "insurance totals"so when policy limit is paid off they own the aircraft.I suppose by sending in data plate they end any possible liability...and just auction off airframe for parts only.Not really sure why they would do this ,I assume it would be worth more with data plate intact and not sure exactly  what their liability exposure would be even than..

[RobertGary1]

When my friend landed by bo gear up for the repairs came out to 90% of The insured value. The agent said anything over 80% is the owners choice. So I chose to take the check and the plane was sent to salvage. 

Had I chosen to repair the plane I was on The hook to pay the betterment charges of about $10K 

 

-Robert 

Edited June 19, 2017 by RobertGary1

[steingar]

Surprised such light damage can total out newer Mooneys.

[Parker_Woodruff]

There has to be more to this story than what's being presented here.  There are newer airframes getting repaired by insurance companies every day.

[mooniac15u]

Does anyone have actual tail numbers for these planes or is this just hearsay?

[orionflt]

I saw it on one of the salvage auction sites, the specified that they were pulling the data plate on one Mooney, on another Mooney they were not. The Mooney they were pulling that data plate showed probable structural damage, that is why i think they were pulling the data plate.

Brian

[Aerodon]

Some insurance companies are more aggressive than others, and sell everything without a dataplate.  Others are more discriminating.  A Super Cub can easily be repaired no matter how much the damage.  A composite airplane - not so easy without proper information from the manufacturer, that is probably not available?

If they scrap the plane and sell the wreck - they still have all the liability from those parts ending up in other planes?  

Personally, I want the insurance adjustors to make an informed call, and scrap planes that should be scrapped.  And I don't think we need to be worried about a declining fleet yet - there are already too many planes vs. pilots?

Aerodon

 

[Mooneymite]

I thought this was just a business decision based on the cheapest way to fulfill the obligation to the insured.  If it's cheaper to buy the owner off based on insured value, that's what they do.....give him a check, and take the plane.  The damaged aircraft may/may not have some value to offset the pay-out.

For us, it is a warning not to under-insure.

[Jerry Pressley]

[carusoam]

That is when the factory reman'd plane option starts to make a lot of sense...

A few MSCs have the proven skill of rebuilding Mooneys from the ground up.

It is going to be a question of who does the actual work.  Apparently, the insurance company doesn't want to get that involved.  

A serious business decision comes up. Before the incident the plane may have been worth 400amu.

Repairing after the incident may cost 100amu. Prop, cowling repair, engine teardown, paint... wing repairs after crashing into the hangar back wall... pure guess on my part.

How is it going to be sold....? Clearly describing it's history, or seeing how far one can get, calling it hangar rash...?

Who wants to buy a 400amu plane with a fuzzy not well known history? Or finding the pictures online, after you bought it...?

At what price does it sell?

We have some experience, collectively, of a Bravo with similar minor damage after hitting a fence.

It seems that all one would need to do is buy a donor Aircraft with a proper serial number plate. Combine the front of one plane to the tail of the other...

The O3's panel would look mighty fine in an old O1... is that a G1000 with all the WAAS and ADSB updates?

The good news is, that looks like a trailer full of Ovation parts to be stored for all the O owners on MS. (Thought this might be good for Jerry)

PP ideas only, not planning on parting out my O1's nameplate. 

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 20, 2017 by carusoam

[peevee]

Maybe they'll scrap a k. I need parts.

[Parker_Woodruff]

15 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

In looking at the other pictures, it seems this was a reasonable total loss.  In that case, yes, the Insurance Company doesn't want a product liability exposure from a poor rebuild.

This would take far more than a week to repair, as the original post implies.

There would be an engine tear down, a new prop, some pretty significant teardown of the wing, and it appears almost all of the control surfaces would have to be replaced.

This example is a far cry from having a simple wing skin or control surface get damaged.  In that case, it would be fixed. 

 

The last position you want to be in is that of an insurance company that let a total loss aircraft get poorly repaired.  Imagine a jury on that one...

Based on the description, here's on that will fly again, with properly disclosed damage history:

https://www.usau.com/caf_claims_salvage_detail.php?SA_Id=158

[flyboy0681]

On 6/18/2017 at 5:17 PM, acpartswhse said:

  An example is an Ovation 3 which a hangar door was blown into it damaging the spinner and cowling along with bottom of rudder. Flap caught the corner of the t hangar. A week would have been necessary to repair if parts were on hand

This is exactly what happened to our 1983 J in 2005 as hurricane Wilma blew in the hangar doors and damaged the spinner and destroyed an aileron. The insurance company paid for the tear down and inspection/replacement of wing components. According to my partners, no questions asked.

[Jerry Pressley]

6 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

In looking at the other pictures, it seems this was a reasonable total loss.  In that case, yes, the Insurance Company doesn't want a product liability exposure from a poor rebuild.

This would take far more than a week to repair, as the original post implies.

There would be an engine tear down, a new prop, some pretty significant teardown of the wing, and it appears almost all of the control surfaces would have to be replaced.

This example is a far cry from having a simple wing skin or control surface get damaged.  In that case, it would be fixed. 

 

The last position you want to be in is that of an insurance company that let a total loss aircraft get poorly repaired.  Imagine a jury on that one...

Based on the description, here's on that will fly again, with properly disclosed damage history:

https://www.usau.com/caf_claims_salvage_detail.php?SA_Id=158

 

6 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

In looking at the other pictures, it seems this was a reasonable total loss.  In that case, yes, the Insurance Company doesn't want a product liability exposure from a poor rebuild.

This would take far more than a week to repair, as the original post implies.

There would be an engine tear down, a new prop, some pretty significant teardown of the wing, and it appears almost all of the control surfaces would have to be replaced.

This example is a far cry from having a simple wing skin or control surface get damaged.  In that case, it would be fixed. 

 

The last position you want to be in is that of an insurance company that let a total loss aircraft get poorly repaired.  Imagine a jury on that one...

Based on the description, here's on that will fly again, with properly disclosed damage history:

https://www.usau.com/caf_claims_salvage_detail.php?SA_Id=158

sorry Parker but you are looking at a totally different airplane.  go back to photos of the ovation and decide damage.  I know a week will fix it,,,,unless the mechanics take siestas along with breaks

[carusoam]

Jerry,

The two planes are both at the USAIG site that Parker listed. One O, the other a TN...

The third damaged Long Body being discussed around here is a Bravo that ran into a fence during a T/O mishap.  It's repairs have been completed and attracts a lot of people to look, ogle, and kick some tires.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Godfather]

I wonder what the O3 will sell for... $50k?  Looks like a lot of repairs to me. 

[carusoam]

Knowing the status of its G1000 system is going to be important.  WAAS and ADSB?

Best regards,

-a-

[rpcc]

I just called the adjuster on the ovation and acclaim - the data plate is intact and will not be removed - they just add logbook entries.

So, what would it cost to repair the ovation?  The damage is listed as prop, cowl, nose gear, left wing, all wing controls both h-stabs, tail tie down area and lower rudder cap.

I assume you would need to include engine inspection and maybe some broken internal parts as well.

[rpcc]

To clarify, there is confusion between the web page information and the actual bid sheet - the web page mentions removal of the data plate, but the bid sheet does not and the adjuster confirmed that the plate stays with the plane.