Are all three gear really down?

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

It shows on my android...

No trouble with my Galaxy Tablet either. It's an interesting view of the gear moving. 

[ilikethewoods]

This is an old thread. This exact problem happened to me on final. M20f fresh out of Pre-buy and we had the "gear down" and the indication on the floor. Landing over 40 times, that 41th, the right hand gear collapsed. Damages: the fixed step (still looking for one of those) and small part of the flap. I removed the belly panels to find a sheared off rod-end from the right hand retract tube, and a bent retract tube. Basically exactly whats in the last photo. The bent tube didn't retract/extend the right hand gear fully down, thus whenever we landed the right hand gear failed. Really bummed. Now, my question is: I need to ferry it home, the gear is down and locked, I have a retract tube but the shop might not be able to install it. Has anyone used something to (gear pin) the gear down? Thanks

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, ilikethewoods said:

This is an old thread. This exact problem happened to me on final. M20f fresh out of Pre-buy and we had the "gear down" and the indication on the floor. Landing over 40 times, that 41th, the right hand gear collapsed. Damages: the fixed step (still looking for one of those) and small part of the flap. I removed the belly panels to find a sheared off rod-end from the right hand retract tube, and a bent retract tube. Basically exactly whats in the last photo. The bent tube didn't retract/extend the right hand gear fully down, thus whenever we landed the right hand gear failed. Really bummed. Now, my question is: I need to ferry it home, the gear is down and locked, I have a retract tube but the shop might not be able to install it. Has anyone used something to (gear pin) the gear down? Thanks

I can't think of an acceptable way to do that. I can think of plenty of Jerry Rigged methods. Why can't the local mechanic replace the rod?

[ilikethewoods]

11 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I can't think of an acceptable way to do that. I can think of plenty of Jerry Rigged methods. Why can't the local mechanic replace the rod?

I found the retract rod from a guy in Cali, forgot his name but everyone of MS knows. Hopefully the shop can install it in. Great person, helped me tons. Now, the ferry flight I would like to keep the bird in a hangar that I usally keep it. 

[mooniac15u]

3 hours ago, ilikethewoods said:

This is an old thread. This exact problem happened to me on final. M20f fresh out of Pre-buy and we had the "gear down" and the indication on the floor. Landing over 40 times, that 41th, the right hand gear collapsed. Damages: the fixed step (still looking for one of those) and small part of the flap. I removed the belly panels to find a sheared off rod-end from the right hand retract tube, and a bent retract tube. Basically exactly whats in the last photo. The bent tube didn't retract/extend the right hand gear fully down, thus whenever we landed the right hand gear failed. Really bummed. Now, my question is: I need to ferry it home, the gear is down and locked, I have a retract tube but the shop might not be able to install it. Has anyone used something to (gear pin) the gear down? Thanks

AirMods bought my plane from the insurance company and flew it back to NJ without repairing the broken retraction tube.  If the over-center lock is in place then the gear isn't going anywhere.  I think they safety wired it in place.  They could probably give you the details if you contact them.

[carusoam]

Inviting three people that may know this answer...

Know what parts to get...

May have additional parts you need...

Installing the parts is the first part... setting the over center torque details takes having the tools(?)

 

The last one is in CA... and is aka Paul... 

@Alan Fox

@acpartswhse

@SheryLoewen
 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic, good luck with your next steps...

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

It's funny.  I always thought the one green light was overkill when I have the giant bar sticking out of my panel.  If the bar is where it's supposed to be and something's wrong, I think I'd rather not know.  My knowledge won't change the outcome, and at least without it  I suffer a little less dread.

[ilikethewoods]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Inviting three people that may know this answer...

Know what parts to get...

May have additional parts you need...

Installing the parts is the first part... setting the over center torque details takes having the tools(?)

 

The last one is in CA... and is aka Paul... 

@Alan Fox

@acpartswhse

@SheryLoewen
 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic, good luck with your next steps...

Best regards,

-a-

I called AirMods. They gave me some amazing advice on locking the gear down. Thanks to @mooniac15u ! 

Edited January 22, 2020 by ilikethewoods

[ilikethewoods]

15 minutes ago, steingar said:

It's funny.  I always thought the one green light was overkill when I have the giant bar sticking out of my panel.  If the bar is where it's supposed to be and something's wrong, I think I'd rather not know.  My knowledge won't change the outcome, and at least without it  I suffer a little less dread.

Awesome! Too bad I don't have a bar, mine is electric. 

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

It's funny.  I always thought the one green light was overkill when I have the giant bar sticking out of my panel.  If the bar is where it's supposed to be and something's wrong, I think I'd rather not know.  My knowledge won't change the outcome, and at least without it  I suffer a little less dread.

The knowledge that my right main gear was retracted came from someone on the ground.  Having that knowledge definitely changed the outcome.  I was able to make a choice to retract the other two and put it down on the belly on the runway.  Not knowing probably would've resulted in departing the runway as the right wingtip started to drag.

[ilikethewoods]

At least this didn't happen...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7opQEHhfpK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[M20F-1968]

With a Johnson Bar Mooney, the single green light actually tells you NOTHING.  It is a single microswitch with a long level, which is pushed by the tip of the Johnson Bar when to handle is "properly engaged" in the block.  

When the green light is on, it may be comforting, but if the switch alignment is not proper or loose, the light may be lying to you.  

More reliable is a pull on the handle.  If the handle is properly engaged in the block, and the spring-loaded thumb-lock is engaged into the recess in the Johnson Bar handle, and if you can not pull the bar down, that information if far more definitive and reliable than a light.

Likewise, in an electric gear Mooney, if switches are sticking or rigged improperly, a similar unreliable condition is conceivable.

An added advantage of the Johnson Bar is it it is your plane, and it has been rigged properly, and has always worked easily, the likelihood of something being bent to the point of being non-functional is improbable.  Given everything is rigged as one system, if one wheel is down they all should be.

John Breda

[N201MKTurbo]

17 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

The knowledge that my right main gear was retracted came from someone on the ground.  Having that knowledge definitely changed the outcome.  I was able to make a choice to retract the other two and put it down on the belly on the runway.  Not knowing probably would've resulted in departing the runway as the right wingtip started to drag.

I bet with left brake application, you could keep it on the runway. A dragging  wingtip may have less friction than you think. But we will never know.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I bet with left brake application, you could keep it on the runway. A dragging  wingtip may have less friction than you think. But we will never know.

I hope to never find out!!

[mooniac15u]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I bet with left brake application, you could keep it on the runway. A dragging  wingtip may have less friction than you think. But we will never know.

This guy knows...

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/small-plane-goes-off-runway-during-landing-at-paine-field/

https://myeverettnews.com/2019/12/29/no-injuries-as-small-plane-skids-off-runway-at-everetts-paine-field/

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by mooniac15u

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

This guy knows...

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/small-plane-goes-off-runway-during-landing-at-paine-field/

https://myeverettnews.com/2019/12/29/no-injuries-as-small-plane-skids-off-runway-at-everetts-paine-field/

 

 

 

To bad his N number is fuzzed out, we could ask him if he applied left brake.

[mooniac15u]

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

To bad his N number is fuzzed out, we could ask him if he applied left brake.

N1086S

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/12/mooney-m20m-bravo-n1086s-incident.html

[Jerry Pressley]

Think the electric motor won't bend a retract rod. Lots of time when a gear up happens the pilot doesnt want anyone to know he forgot then reaches for the gear switch. I guess he hopes the fear motor will pick the plane up off its belly.   But instead it rips and tears the gear rods and brackets etc .  Totally different than a gear collapse which also bends rods.  

[Austintatious]

On 4/26/2017 at 1:58 PM, Sabremech said:

I agree with Vance. Unless data shows an abnormally high instance of gear failure problems with the Mooney, which I don't think it does, the current indication system is more than adequate. The simpler, the better. 

IIRC mooney accounts for quite a lot of gear up/collapse incidents.

Some more gear up favs....  What is that sound? 

 

 

Gear up?  go around!  (no dont do this!)

 

Be sure to pick the most inconvenient spot to stop for the airport!

 

[Guitarmaster]

IIRC mooney accounts for quite a lot of gear up/collapse incidents.
[/url] Some more gear up favs....  What is that sound? 
 
 
Gear up?  go around!  (no dont do this!)
 
Be sure to pick the most inconvenient spot to stop for the airport!
 

The guy on the Hawker was a textbook job of how you should handle a gear up problem.
The guy in the Aerostar, not so much.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Austintatious]

Just now, Guitarmaster said:

The guy on the Hawker was a textbook job of how you should handle a gear up problem.
The guy in the Aerostar, not so much.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Ohh yea... he did a great job... IIRC he ended up stopping at the intersection of the two runways shutting down the entire airport until they could get the aircraft moved..  I think they were hoping he would go past the intersection and they could continue to use 1 of the runways.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Austintatious said:

IIRC mooney accounts for quite a lot of gear up/collapse incidents.

Some more gear up favs....  What is that sound? 

 

 

Gear up?  go around!  (no dont do this!)

 

Be sure to pick the most inconvenient spot to stop for the airport!

 

Most of the gear up incidents are pilot failures, not equipment failures. Will watch these videos later.

[PT20J]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:48 AM, Hank said:

Most of the gear up incidents are pilot failures, not equipment failures. Will watch these videos later.

And that’s why I’m skeptical that the gear up rate for Mooneys would be different than other retractables. Years ago, I was a member of a flying club that had an Arrow and a Ranger (Johnson bar). I know that the Mooney geared up twice and the Arrow at least once. No mechanical issues.

Skip

[ilikethewoods]

Well, I was able to Ferry the bird to a shop in Smithvile. Thanks to the FAA for the permit. Used Airmods method and it work. Let's just say my cheeks were a bit tight on landing...! Thanks for all the help. 

[kortopates]

11 minutes ago, ilikethewoods said:

Well, I was able to Ferry the bird to a shop in Smithvile. Thanks to the FAA for the permit. Used Airmods method and it work. Let's just say my cheeks were a bit tight on landing...! Thanks for all the help. 

How did you secure the gear to stay down?