CIES and EDM 900 Going in M20F

[Stephen]

Hi Mooney team, I have this new gear going in my plane. Please let me know if you guys want any specific PIREPS / Pic's related to the install process. Right now the new fuel senders are installed in the wings but the wings are still opened up (top access panels).

According to Aircraft Spruce, the ship date on the EDM 900 is 3/24 so we will be largely stalled up until then. Blue Sky Aviation at KROG is doing the EDM install, but I'm going to start opening it up for them and big removing the existing gages, TACH, MP/FF, OAT, Fuel Quantity, old JPI CHT/EGT, Shadin fuel flow etc today in the Hangar. 

These are the before photos at the panel:

 

 

[75_M20F]

I am interested in this install. I want to do the same thing to my 75F, but the panel space is a problem in my plane. You are removing all the OEM gauges? Where is it going to be mounted? I have a EDM 700, will the 900 use the same harness?

Thanks!

Mike

 

[carusoam]

I would be interested in all the things that you connect between the various systems...

1) JPI

2) FL sensors

3) FF sensor

4) GPS

5) aural and visual warnings

If I were to add something...

The automated warning systems are week in mid 90s planes.  Improvements would not cost too much...

- Fuel to destination

- Gallons to empty

- Time to empty

- Distance to empty

- the JPI has a nice RAD to put a light front and center of the pilot.  Various warnings can be announced at this central location.

- adding an aural cue would be helpful.

PP thoughts only.  My ship never got all these systems connected, yet...

Best regards,

-a-

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by carusoam

[Marauder]

I am interested in this install. I want to do the same thing to my 75F, but the panel space is a problem in my plane. You are removing all the OEM gauges? Where is it going to be mounted? I have a EDM 700, will the 900 use the same harness?

Thanks!

Mike

 

 

Mike - this is the current panel in my 75 F (subject to change in a couple of weeks). I removed all of the factory original strip gauges and the mechanical tach, FP and MP gauges and went with EIs as redundancy to the JPI 900.

 

I don't think the 700 will use the same harness. Check with Aerodon on this site as he offers trade-ins for upgrades like you are considering. I know when I upgraded from the 830 to the 900, I was able to re-use the main harnesses.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Wakeup]

Marauader,

I can't look at that beautiful panel with that CB CO Detector stuck to it.  Please remove it with one quick rip to ease the pain.   I know you got a new one.  

Thanks,

Troy  

[75_M20F]

17 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

Mike - this is the current panel in my 75 F (subject to change in a couple of weeks). I removed all of the factory original strip gauges and the mechanical tach, FP and MP gauges and went with EIs as redundancy to the JPI 900.

 

I don't think the 700 will use the same harness. Check with Aerodon on this site as he offers trade-ins for upgrades like you are considering. I know when I upgraded from the 830 to the 900, I was able to re-use the main harnesses.

 

 

 

 

 

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Very nice panel... I would need to get rid of something to install the EDM 900...

Here is my panel.. the GTN takes up a lot of space

Edited March 12, 2017 by Mooney_Mike

[75_M20F]

I suppose I could get a remote transponder and get rid of the ADF for more room. plus get a GTN650 for com2

[Bob_Belville]

5 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said:

Very nice panel... I would need to get rid of something to install the EDM 900...

Here is my panel.. the GTN takes up a lot of space

I have a (larger) JPI 930 as well as a Stormscope and the GTN 750. You might have to do a new panel to better utilize all the space freed up by an EDM. The Aspen replaced a HSI and a VSI so that didn't save space. The ADF can go.

[75_M20F]

27 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I have a (larger) JPI 930 as well as a Stormscope and the GTN 750. You might have to do a new panel to better utilize all the space freed up by an EDM. The Aspen replaced a HSI and a VSI so that didn't save space. The ADF can go.

Very nice! I like the 930 even better now that I see it in your panel. The remote display is a nice feature with the 930.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, Mooney_Mike said:

Very nice! I like the 930 even better now that I see it in your panel. The remote display is a nice feature with the 930.

Several folks here think they want the EDM on the left side of the panel but I am absolutely convinced mine is in the right spot. This pic exaggerates the distance from the pilot. When you're sitting in the left seat note that the space directly above the right yoke is within easy reach and the display is so large that reading anything there is easy.

The EDM is mostly of interest when we're not really aviating. We use it to monitor temps during climb, to tweak FF to cruise LOP/ROP. perhaps to tweak cowl flaps based on CHT or OT and to manage fuel used/remaining.

During takeoff and landing the stuff on my left panel is most important, the Stormscope & the GTN are more important for weather and traffic than the EDM. And as you noticed the RAD provides RPM and MAP plus alarms front and center.

[Stephen]

20 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said:

Very nice panel... I would need to get rid of something to install the EDM 900...

Here is my panel.. the GTN takes up a lot of space

 

Yeah, you can remove the ADF head, and the 900 can be mounted in portrait vs landscape. It is primary so it replaces the strip gages along the top so you could go that way... Alternately delete the ADF and, the (Voltage?) small gauge on the far left and move the chrono over there. Then, I think you could place it in landscape orientation. I printed out a to-scale paper EDM 900 for fitment. I currently have removed my ADF head and WX8 stormscope head and a few others that are getting culled for the next instrument install round.  

[Stephen]

Unfortunately started the process with 60 gal on board that had to be drained and the maintenance shop (Blue Sky, Rogers, AR) indicated they can't put it back due to insurance regs/agreement with the local FBO (Beaver Lake Aviation a.k.a  Walmart) to not do fueling services so I got a bunch of 5 gal gas cans ....I can say my '97 corvette seems to love 100LL...nor more spark knock.  

On the EDM/CIES install detail:

• Decided not to do the cross connect from the EDM 900 to the Garmin 520 right now. Seems like the 900 provides pretty good data, but it could be hooked up at any time in the future. Does anybody use it that has an EDM 9xx? Just curious
• Blue Sky said CIES is awesome to work with (BTW). They really liked the idea of the system. One word of feedback is that CIES gave them some options on connecting the ground wires rather than home running them back to the panel. Will be necessary to update the as-installed schematic for future troubleshooting. I have the top panels on the wings off. CIES said their general advice is to not close (topside) wing panels until you check both EMPTY through FULL levels. If there is a problem you are not fully sealing the wing until you know for a fact that everything works....interesting, will have to be careful when sealing panels on top of a full tank of fuel because if sealant or anything dropped in, you have to - again- de-fuel. 
• I have a growing box of removed instruments. JPI, ADF, 3M Strikefinder, Digital OAT (read 52deg , Terra Digital Glideslope w/ CDI, Digital VSI, Digital Press Alt, Digital Tach, and the mechanical FF/MP and an IFR GPS. Hopefully all that stuff coming out will help with the Payload a bit.
  
  Your MMV, but I found that the EDM 900 was able to pick up the ADF hole and fit exactly where I indicate with the green box:

 

 

[carusoam]

Your sense of humor is good...

the LL is not good for catalytic converters. Cats don't even like ROP...

My plane has been 20 years without connecting the GPS, FF, and FL...  It is better to connect them earlier than wait until later...  it never gets completed.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 7, 2017 by carusoam

[Stephen]

17 hours ago, carusoam said:

Your sense of humor is good...

the LL is not good for catalytic converters. Cats don't even like ROP...

 

 but it runs *SO WELL* no more spark knock (auto-knock retard system seems to be DOA)  ....  ok, to the dumb ol' lawn mower with the precious blue nectar of life ......  ::sigh:::

[Stephen]

New Pictures of the EDM 900 install

Overall panel disruption:

View of Inboard CIES RT wing sending unit (float hanging out of bottom of wing) 

View (green circle) of area where back side of inboard LT wing sending unit location:

Close up of interior face of CIES inboard CIES unit:

 

Panel EDM location (revised from last post) to pick up old digital heading heading unit

 

 

 

 

[Guitarmaster]

On 3/12/2017 at 0:34 PM, Mooney_Mike said:

Very nice panel... I would need to get rid of something to install the EDM 900...

Here is my panel.. the GTN takes up a lot of space

Ditch the ADF and put it there.  You will be glad you did.  The numbers are small and having it right in front of you is really nice.

 

[StevenL757]

Stephen, you will love the CIES senders.  My accuracy with them connected to my EDM900 has been better than Scott advertises.  Also, glad you were able to get your 900 installed in landscape mode.

Word of advice from someone with experience doing this several times...Calibrate your tanks carefully and take your time dong it.  This needs to be done with the airplane on jacks and level.  No exceptions.  Looks like you're in good hands, but happy to help if you have questions.

Regards, Steve

[Stephen]

Thanks for the thoughts, we'll take the calibration slow and definitely doing it jacked up to flight level. Just curious did you level it via bubble level on the seat tracks or ???  

[carusoam]

Great photos, Stephen!

Best regards,

-a-

[StevenL757]

10 hours ago, Stephen said:

Thanks for the thoughts, we'll take the calibration slow and definitely doing it jacked up to flight level. Just curious did you level it via bubble level on the seat tracks or ???  

Yes.  Via a level on/across the seat tracks for roll, and an external level across two bolts on the left side rear for pitch...similar in position to where the baggage door would be if it were on the left side.  I'll be at the hangar in the next couple of hours and will get a pic for reference.  Your avionics guys should know where this pitch line measurement should be on a Mooney, but will post here.

Rgds, Steve

[Guitarmaster]

Thanks for the thoughts, we'll take the calibration slow and definitely doing it jacked up to flight level. Just curious did you level it via bubble level on the seat tracks or ???  

Yes, across the seat rails and here for pitch.



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[StevenL757]

Stephen, there you go...Matt beat me to it.  :-)

So your level measurement lines are on the right on the "F", not the left?

[Guitarmaster]

Stephen, there you go...Matt beat me to it.  :-)
So your level measurement lines are on the right on the "F", not the left?

Technically the seam on the left side is the level reference, it is the same on the right side as well.
Of course, I had to level it on the left side too because my little bit of OCD that I actually have would not allow me to do just the one side.

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[StevenL757]

Exactly the kind of OCD I use...and love.  :-)

[Stetson20]

4 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

 

 

Technically the seam on the left side is the level reference, it is the same on the right side as well.
Of course, I had to level it on the left side too because my little bit of OCD that I actually have would not allow me to do just the one side.

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I'm not sure I can afford to have Matt look at my plane! He'll have enough "suggested tweaks" to put me in the poor house! 

Looking forward to bringing it over to C77 for a look over! Hope to see ya Monday!