anti seize on spark plug insulator.

[cnoe]

For a lousy $3.60 for 8 washers, I would use new ones, but it's your life. If you want to save money, sell the plane!

This seems to have struck a nerve with you. I am anything BUT combative on this forum, but I have to say that annealing my own plug gaskets is one of the least dangerous things one can do to their plane. To insinuate that I am compromising the safety of myself, family, and friends is insulting.

I take great pride in the proper maintenance of my aircraft. I personally perform as much of that maintenance myself not only to save money but also to assure that it's done correctly and completely. How many big spenders go the extra mile to periodically inspect and monitor their exhaust valves for potential problems?

To set the record straight belonging to the CB Club does NOT translate to cutting corners with safety. Of course spending $3.60 on plug gaskets is NOTHING compared to the thousands I spend annually on upgrades and non-essential maintenance.

Okay, rant off.


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[jetdriven]

Knowing CNOE personally, His maintenance practices and the condition of his airplane are second to none. He sent me a savvy analysis of his engine and his CHts were within ten degrees of each other and his egt' we're also within a few degrees, and a GAMI spread of zero. He was asking if there was any more improvement to be had. Well, he did find a bad ignition harness lead end, because the inflight mag check showed a 50 degree higher rise on one mag that the other, on one cylinder. Nobody else takes the time to do that.  He frequently takes stuff to his IA that supervises him and he's never heard of it, either. But he always thinks it through, first.

if someone was shooting at me, and his and my plane were on the ramp, I'd take the closest one. Well maybe I'd prefer his, it holds more gas and has a Garmin 530W. 

I also reuse the spark plug gaskets. Once you get two sets, it's easy to anneal the spares et and set aside for the next change. Then I'll, spend the 3.60 per oil change on something else. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by jetdriven

[MB65E]

I was reading something recently that Lycoming changed their antiseize compound from the nickel to copper. Can anyone elaborate. I'll look for the document. 

-Matt

[rbridges]

2 hours ago, MB65E said:

I was reading something recently that Lycoming changed their antiseize compound from the nickel to copper. Can anyone elaborate. I'll look for the document. 

-Matt

I saw that, too.  Not sure of the reason, but I saw the bulletin where they said to use copper based anti seize.  I figured I would just use what I have.  When researching my issue, I saw that people were using the aluminum/graphite stuff for years.  

[carusoam]

I first saw the copper antisieze back in the 90s.... working with very hot machines.  The copper was best for it's added heat transfer capabilities.

It would be interesting if the same is true for aviation engines.  The temp ranges are similar for the hot machines and CHTs...

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

7 hours ago, cnoe said:

 

This seems to have struck a nerve with you. I am anything BUT combative on this forum, but I have to say that annealing my own plug gaskets is one of the least dangerous things one can do to their plane. To insinuate that I am compromising the safety of myself, family, and friends is insulting.
 

1. I didn't quote you, if you feel insulted, that's your problem.

2. I stand by my statement, given the discussion about what kind of torch, copper vs steel...seems to me many don't know what they are doing, and would be better off spending the $4, that's all. 

[cnoe]

39 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

1. I didn't quote you, if you feel insulted, that's your problem.

2. I stand by my statement, given the discussion about what kind of torch, copper vs steel...seems to me many don't know what they are doing, and would be better off spending the $4, that's all. 

It's no big deal; I find that much of what you post has merit. I'm sure not going to lose any sleep.

I will agree that if people aren't comfortable and competent working on their planes they might be better off paying a professional.

[ArtVandelay]

One question, I'm curious how do you restore the original shape. The compression of the washer will cause it to thin out or mushroom, does the annealing process restore the shape?

[N9201A]

I will agree that if people aren't comfortable and competent working on their planes they might be better off paying a professional.

Certainly the "many" who "don't know what they're doing" are better off just spending money. Of course, they still won't know what they are doing, but perhaps lighter wallets are a salve for ignorance?

For my part, I'm on this forum to learn. I spent a long time writing checks before I started to really try to understand aircraft maintenance, and while I still write checks, at least now I understand better why.

While water quenching v. air-cooling was outside my knowledge base until reading this, you can bet I'm going to ask about it (and the other great points raised about the seemingly simple spark plug) next annual...which will be owner-assisted as I continue to expand my skill set. Not because I'm a CB (which I am) but because I'm trying to learn.

Thanks to those contributing positively.

[Guest]

For my entire career I have softened and reused copper spark plug gaskets, I guess I was a CB member before I knew what it was.  

We used to use Champion's spark plug anti seize, but switched to Loctite C-5 anti seize after many plugs became difficult to remove.

In more than 30 years I've never seen a plug fall out because the gasket was used, I have seen leads fall off because they weren't torqued.

Clarence

[Yetti]

40 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

One question, I'm curious how do you restore the original shape. The compression of the washer will cause it to thin out or mushroom, does the annealing process restore the shape?

That's not quiet how it works.  The twisting action when you torque up the plug causes the washer to form to the mating surface on the plug and the cylinder.   Also I believe there is a slight bevel on the cylinder mating surface and containment area to keep the washer from squeezing out. Some mating surfaces (BMW motorcycle) have lines in the surface to make a better seal.

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

One question, I'm curious how do you restore the original shape. The compression of the washer will cause it to thin out or mushroom, does the annealing process restore the shape?

The original shape is flat and it crushes to like a half degree bevel.  After you use it once and anneal it, put the washer on the plug the opposite so it re-crushes to the new shape. After something like 10-15 re-uses it finally gets stretched and flattened enough to warrant scrapping. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by jetdriven

[DXB]

This talk of getting the washers red hot and then dropping in water with a loud hiss and puff of steam is starting to sound kinda fun.

That may be the real appeal, not the 30 cent savings. 

I may have to give it a shot! 

[Yetti]

Oh and now the question...   Water, oil or salt brine to quench

[Hank]

Just now, Yetti said:

Oh and now the question...   Water, oil or salt brine to quench

Use what liquid you got, as long as it's at room temp. Olive oil smells really nice when used to quench. But it would be shameful to use good beer . . .

Edited September 28, 2016 by Hank

[Larry]

Why not just use engine oil instead of anti-seize.  It is even suggested in Lycoming SI 1042AB.

Larry

[N201MKTurbo]

I once was taking out my sparkplugs to clean them (it had been 100 hours or so) and found one without a washer!

I'm lucky to be alive!

[carusoam]

Larry,

The soft metal micro flakes of anti-seize do a better job of lubricating the threads over time.  Much easier and less force required to remove threaded parts that have been through large heat cycles.

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

Although I'm sure the anti-seize helps with heat transfer a little bit. I put it on so I can get the plugs out next time.

If heat transfer is your thing, go checkout the exotic stuff the PC overclockers use on their CPUs

[DXB]

Someone once forgot washers for 2 bottom plugs.  I wonder what is the worst that could have happened but I don't really know. They function to conduct heat out of the plug and into the cylinder head right?  Without it, can the plug overheat and cause pre-ignition? Does it trash the threads on the plug or cylinder head?   Is there a risk of it coming loose and losing compression?  Anyway, I flew a couple hours like this, and none of this happened to me. I was just curious.  

[ArtVandelay]

I would think combustion would make its way around the threads because of a lack of a good seal, maybe cause seizing, or loss of torque.

[N9201A]

Oh and now the question...   Water, oil or salt brine to quench

So is beer 100% out then? I've got some old PBR that needs a good use...

[cnoe]

Sounds like a good use for PBR to me! I sure as heck wouldn't DRINK it.


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[Browncbr1]

don't forget to rotate your washers and check them with an ohm meter while you're working on your spark plugs!     

[cliffy]

I was taught by an old time radial engine mechanic (he changed hundreds of plugs a week) to use clean engine oil on the threads. I dip a drop on my finger tip and roll the plug one time to spread it around. I've been doing this for 55+ years and never had a plug stick coming out. I clean the threads with a wire brush before hand. My Tempest massives have 750 hrs on them and are working just fine. 

I think too many plugs get changed way too early. Look at 43.13 on spark plug wear and see how far they let it go.