What should i get?

[Samurai Husky]

My comment wasnt so much about not wanting to do it; I have been going up in these conditions after all; But for someone that had just been introduced to landings the added difficulty makes it hard to learn anything from the experience. If we were 40 hours in then i think it would be a great learning experience since i would have the entire landing procedure down pat and could cope with the extra challenge.

I was the one that gave the green light yesterday, he wanted to cancel because he didn't think it would be worth my time yet. I wanted to go up for the reasons you said specifically. There will be a time and place where i will need to do this, so let give it a shot.

[bradp]

@ Ninja Dalmatian 

Most folks solo between 10-20 hrs. Some people are cut loose in less than 10.   Their first name is usually Bob and they have a vacuum cleaner for a surname. Part of that has to do with the docile handling characteristics of those trainer aircraft.  Please get your rear end into some sort of an actual trainer and learn to land. I imagine you have > 10 hrs in your log by now.** You should be well on to landings.  My fear is that the learning curve is so steep in that cirrus that you are spending too much time trying to learn things like systems and practicing for that first gusty day that you are missing out on an opportunity to act as PIC in a lesser bird.  Grasshopper must learn to land in calm wind before learning LLWS.  

 

** can I log wings credit reading this 200 post 14 page thread?

[Yetti]

If you went up yesterday to practice landings then that was a waste of time, if you went up to practice air work, then you should have gotten a lot out of it that would have helped your landings.   You should have been doing turns around a point down low and slow flight up high making the plane fly backwards and such.  These type experiences in your bag of tricks greatly help your landings. because you are learning how gusts and changing wind direction affects the plane and what the response you should input to counteract the changing wind. Power out landings with slips lining up on different cows in the pasture and then moving to another would be another thing to add to your bag of tricks.

[Seth]

Have you booked time in a 172 or PA-28 yet?  

-Seth

[Samurai Husky]

nope; i want to get through the existing lessons first. This is my decision, im still learning the basics so i just want to keep things simple.

during my last lessons i will ask to check them out; then once i am solo i can do what ever.

@Yetti

Yep, waste of time. New airport so i was unfamiliar with the pattern, not great conditions. The benefit is i think i know why i am having problems centering. We'll see next week; we were supposed to go up today but canceled because of similar conditions.

Yes we are well past 10 hours and we are about 3 lessons into landing. We were supposed to go to an airport with 2 runways that are 40 degrees of each other (or something like that) so that we can do cross wind practice with crab and slip landings, but with the wind we both didnt see the point.

I was told the average to private in this area is about 70hrs total. 20 or so of that is with the instructor depending on the person.

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Samurai Husky

[gsengle]

@ Ninja Dalmatian 

Most folks solo between 10-20 hrs. Some people are cut loose in less than 10.   Their first name is usually Bob and they have a vacuum cleaner for a surname. Part of that has to do with the docile handling characteristics of those trainer aircraft.  Please get your rear end into some sort of an actual trainer and learn to land. I imagine you have > 10 hrs in your log by now.** You should be well on to landings.  My fear is that the learning curve is so steep in that cirrus that you are spending too much time trying to learn things like systems and practicing for that first gusty day that you are missing out on an opportunity to act as PIC in a lesser bird.  Grasshopper must learn to land in calm wind before learning LLWS.  

 

** can I log wings credit reading this 200 post 14 page thread?

LMAO

[amillet]

I just looked back at my first log book. 1st solo on 4/1/89 with 8.1 hours 3 weeks after first flight, and 11 lessons with 2different instructors.  1st instructor left town without warning; rumor was FAA was looking for him.  He left a Grumman AA-1B at the airport which apparently didn't belong to him.

[Samurai Husky]

we do hobbs instead of tac on the book; so i would say a good amount of that is sitting doing check lists at run up;

Its a good 10 mins to taxi from our parking spot to the run up. 5 if we arn't waiting on other traffic. So for every hour i would say at least 20 minutes of that is not in the air....

Yesterday we were 6th in line.

But thanks for making me feel inadequate anyway! I cant imagine anyone doing solo in 8.5hrs in the bay area, even if i nailed every lesson i still think i would be a few hours away from feeling comfortable.

[FlyDave]

Personally, I don't know how the OP can find time to learn to fly since he started this thread.

[DonMuncy]

12 minutes ago, Samurai Husky said:

we do hobbs instead of tac on the book; so i would say a good amount of that is sitting doing check lists at run up;

Its a good 10 mins to taxi from our parking spot to the run up. 5 if we arn't waiting on other traffic. So for every hour i would say at least 20 minutes of that is not in the air....

Yesterday we were 6th in line.

But thanks for making me feel inadequate anyway! I cant imagine anyone doing solo in 8.5hrs in the bay area, even if i nailed every lesson i still think i would be a few hours away from feeling comfortable.

Don't  worry about it SH. Averages are only averages. I have never seen any real numbers, but I would bet a lot that there is virtually no correlation between hours to solo and ultimate success as a pilot. Those who soloed early get to brag about it, and those of us who took longer don't post our number. 

[N5756v]

Took me longer hehehehe a lot longer then 10 hrs to solo

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Samurai Husky]

9 minutes ago, FlyDave said:

Personally, I don't know how the OP can find time to learn to fly since he started this thread.

LOL; 

Single, No kids, and a pretty cushy job..... If its not project season, then most of the time im not working a full day; I just need to be immediatlely available, hence plenty of time to post.

1 hour ago, amillet said:

I just looked back at my first log book. 1st solo on 4/1/89 with 8.1 hours 3 weeks after first flight, and 11 lessons with 2different instructors.  1st instructor left town without warning; rumor was FAA was looking for him.  He left a Grumman AA-1B at the airport which apparently didn't belong to him.

I checked the FAA regs, they state a minimum of 20 hours of flight time with an instructor with some of that being night (3hrs) and long distance (more than 100nm). So either they changed the regs, or someone fudged your book.

FAR 61.109 

20 hours of flight training from an authorized flight instructor, including at least i. 3 hours of cross-country (i.e. to other airports) ii. 3 hours of night, including 1. One cross-country flight of over 100nm total distance 2. 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop at an airport.

 

I just added up my book, Im at about 20hrs, and that includes all of the run up and check lists and taxiing etc. So i figure i have another  5-10 to go. Probably 10 based on the learning curve of the cirrus. At least I hope i do.... I guess it really depends on if all of this starts to click or not.

Now if only i can get ATC to stop talking like those disclaimers messages at the end of mortgage commercials..... 

 

[glafaille]

SH

Don't worry about it, have fun and learn as much as you can.  

You are climbing a pretty steep hill.  You are learning in a less than ideal area too far from the practice area, in a less than ideal aircraft, and with frequent less than ideal weather conditions.  It's likely to be a much longer and more expensive proposition for you due to these factors.  Absolutely no reflection on your abilities or those of your instructor.

Keep up the good work and you'll get there.

[Samurai Husky]

Just now, glafaille said:

SH

Don't worry about it, have fun and learn as much as you can.  

You are climbing a pretty steep hill.  You are learning in a less than ideal area too far from the practice area, in a less than ideal aircraft, and with frequent less than ideal weather conditions.  It's likely to be a much longer and more expensive proposition for you due to these factors.  Absolutely no reflection on your abilities or those of your instructor.

Keep up the good work and you'll get there.

 thanks.

Im going to get there come hell or high water...... which in today's era of global warming and the fact that my airport is 4ft above sea level, really limits my time frame........

 

[amillet]

61.109 requires 20 hours of instruction to apply for pilot's license, not to solo.

[MyNameIsNobody]

8 hours ago, Samurai Husky said:

 thanks.

Im going to get there come hell or high water...... which in today's era of global warming and the fact that my airport is 4ft above sea level, really limits my time frame........

 

B.S. Alert.  That is not water that is high...

[MyNameIsNobody]

SH likes to make lots of excuses instead of owning his training.  You "mentors" are all going to "own it" if and when "it" happens. I have an IT "Me oriented" friend.  I can talk about why all frigg'n day long.  Might as well be talking to myself.

Your instructor who signs off for your solo does so with his credibility on the line.  With the sign off will be specific criteria.  Maybe pattern at X airport with sky conditions not to exceed X.  You are not "cut lose"...

They are trying to protect you from yourself...as are many posters on this thread.  Look up obtuse.  You define the word SH.

[bonal]

I think this will be my last comment on this thread. I have made my best to suggest things that might be beneficial to Sam I ask this question. In your flight training what have you been trained on thus far. Have you done Dutch rolls flown a circle around a point flown a box around same s turns along a straight road etc. I can't imagine an instructor not wanting to take advantage of challenging winds to teach these basic maneuvers. Higher winds are the best classroom one can have.  As for time to solo not to worry but I guarantee you will get there sooner in a trainer than a High performance.  I just wonder about your training sessions seems a little odd. Anyway good luck with your PPL and don't forget this is supposed to be fun.

Dont worry about your airport when ice in water melts the level goes down.

I'm out...

[mooniac15u]

56 minutes ago, bonal said:

Dont worry about your airport when ice in water melts the level goes down.

I'm out...

I know that's the popular belief because the density of ice is less than that of liquid water but it turns out that it's actually not correct.  Because ice is buoyant the amount of water it displaces is equivalent to the total mass of the ice.  However, some of the ice remains out of the water. So, when the ice melts the full mass of the ice becomes liquid and it exactly fills the volume previously displaced by the ice.  The end result is no change in the level of the water.

All that aside, it is not the ice currently floating in the oceans that is cause for concern.  It is the very large ice sheets over places like Greenland and Antarctica that could cause a rise in ocean levels.

[Samurai Husky]

@bonal In your flight training what have you been trained on thus far

Airplane operation, pre flight, run up, take offs. Level flight, turns (20d, 30d)_, steep turns (45d), take offs, stalls, power on stalls, power off stalls, near spins (though he did that not me) Taxiing, S turns, box flying aka pattern flying, box flying in wind, more takes offs (because i used to suck at them), approaches, landings, landings with wind (though we need to do more on this); ATC communication, Non Towered airport approaches and landings, Entering Class B/C airspace + NorCal Approach and requesting transition including use of the transponder, Wake turbulence (went to SJC for that), Emergency procedures including engine out, mag out, over heating, emergency decent, optimal glide slope. Simulated landings with engine out (ie, pick a road/field and try to land on it with no engine); Durring trips to farther airports we did lessons on GPS, how to use the auto pilot with GPS, inputting flight plans, using LOP assistant to reach Peak power. etc.

Whats left: More airports with different runway configurations, Cross wind landings, night flight, long distance flight.

I think thats pretty much it. I might have forgotten something in there. 

This is how lessons used to go until recently: 

I show up 30 mins early, pre-flight the plane. We meet in a class room and go over today's lesson including any other questions i have. We go out to the plane and do run up and take off. Do lesson for about 45 minutes before heading back. All in all its a 3 hour block of time with the instructor, 1-1.5hr with the engine on. 

Lately its been pre flight, 5 mins of discussion then 1-2hrs of being in the plane. 

Hope that answers some questions.

We cut the last training short because of the wind, If it were steady wind from a consistent direction, we would have continued, but there were severe gusts and the wind would change directions. The final straw was when we were in level flight about to land and the wind changed direction with a large gust, causing the left wing to stall and drop. I had no idea what was going on and he had to jump in and right the ship because we were only 6 ft off the ground and was afraid of a ground strike.  So while yes, we normally take advantage of windy situations; there are some situations where it can be dangerous based on my skill level. 

The average wind in the bay area is 10-15 from 320. So there will be plenty of opportunities to fly with wind, we have only had 1 day (1hr) of calm winds out of 20ish hr of flight. 

Ah,

So the reason why we didnt do something else like box patterns was because we had already covered them and they are something that i can do on my own when solo. My instructor is just trying to save me money since i am more critical of myself then he is of me. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Samurai Husky

[Danb]

SH, I'd not let all the experts here alter your plans or confidence, I'd not get hung up on how long any phase of your training takes, just try to master all phases of flight while you have your instructor available how much time it took others makes absolutely no difference. Like when you get your house painted your neighbors will say how good it looks not how long it took or what it cost. This is a rough group, probably not a good source for you, I've seen more negatives than positives from the forum. Go fly, have fun,throw away the calendar and Hobbs meter and learn to be the best you can be.

 

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

33 minutes ago, Danb said:

SH, I'd not let all the experts here alter your plans or confidence, I'd not get hung up on how long any phase of your training takes, just try to master all phases of flight while you have your instructor available how much time it took others makes absolutely no difference. Like when you get your house painted your neighbors will say how good it looks not how long it took or what it cost. This is a rough group, probably not a good source for you, I've seen more negatives than positives from the forum. Go fly, have fun,throw away the calendar and Hobbs meter and learn to be the best you can be

Thanks, that means a lot. 

Im just trying to do what is right. The more i fly the more i dont know, so i am trying to take it in stride.

The only plan alteration that I have done is

1. reassess what type of plane i am capable of flying and which ones would need significant CFI investment to fly. 

2. wanting to get more exposure in other types of trainers. Again, i will revisit this after i get through my current lessons. I may end up check riding in a 172 or something else.

3. try to live with out fancy avionics (kind of goes with 2); Though i think i need skywatch regardless.

4. Im not sweating any time lines as much, i was in a rush before, but now that i have been up a few times in conditions where i know i would have trouble returning home its changed my perspective. I wont solo until i know i can land at KPAO in multiple conditions, not kinda land, but land nearly blindfolded. Its just such a challenging runway, that you need to nail almost everything to get down. Every other runway in comparison has been much, much easier. 

 

 

[carl]

I soloed in 40 hours , (that is soloed , not my licence)

but i went whenever I accumulated enough money , that's the slow way so you redo stuff

[TWinter]

Food for thought.. Just this week a student pilot had a accident here at KDYR. I was not there, but the plane ended up over 500 feet off the runway in the grass.

This student had started PPL training in a Cherokee 140, he was doing fine with the instructor. 

Fast forward a few weeks.The students uncle owns a nice turbo Dakota at our field. The uncle just recently purchased a Bonanza and put the Dakota up for sale. The Dakota is (was) as very nice plane. The Cherokee had to go to the shop for service. Since the Dakota was just sitting in the hanger and not being used uncle offers the nephew use of the turbo Dakota to continue working toward PPL. The instructor and student work for a few weeks in the Dakota..Apparently, the student was doing well enough to start his solos. He continues practicing touch/go and general local flying.

Last week the student comes in too hot. Next thing the plane is 500-600 feet off the runway adjacent to a fence. The plane is resting on the nose, the nose gear is some 100 ft south of the plane. The prop is toast, The cowl is cracked in places. Lots of damage. Fortunately, No injury. The plane is now parked in the community hanger with the nose on concrete blocks.

All the instructor could do was sit from inside the FBO and watch as this unfolded at the far side of runway 22. The plane was towed back to the hanger, student shook up, scared and embarrassed. The student says he just came in too fast and lost control at roll-out/taxi. I'm thinking he was way fast to end up that far off the runway.

I was not there, but heard all about it and saw the plane in the hanger. I've seen and heard the student fly before the accident. I always thought the plane was too much plane for a student, but that's my opinion only, apparently doing well enough in the eyes of the instructor.

The mechanic is thinking damage is north of 50K. The engine is near TBO so that will be taken into consideration from the insurance perspective.

Moral to the story and contributing factor...The plane was way more plane as a learning PPL. Not sure what the student status is right now, probably a few loads of laundry to get the stains from his shorts.

This is just one incident and I'm not comparing SH to this incident..Just showing that sometimes training in a high performance plane can certainly have a impact while trying to learn basic PPL. There is plenty to learn, no need add additional distractions. 

 

 

-Tom

 

[Samurai Husky]

I get it. 

I have contacted other flying clubs already for trying out other planes.

In general though; i fly like a grandma; so getting to 75 for final isnt that hard. 90 for down wind, 85 for base, 75 for final; touch at 65. In general i have a tenancy to pull power way down, then add it back in, the responsiveness of the airplane to adding power is almost immediate, so even if i am slow on final, adding in 10% or so gets me there. 

My problem has been staying on the centerline, not my speed control.