Should I replace my ADF?

[steingar]

The Lucky Strike, my M20C, is equipped with a KX155 with glideslope and a King NDB, in addition to a VFR GPS com.  It also has an old KN86 ADF that is inoperable.  I plan on using it as an IFR trainer in the Spring (it will also be my IFR traveling machine).  I'd like an IFR GPS, but between the box and the installation it just isn't in the cards right now.  On the other hand I could replace the inoperable ADF with one that works without spending big money.  Should I?

[gsengle]

Nope

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[Marauder]

The Lucky Strike, my M20C, is equipped with a KX155 with glideslope and a King NDB, in addition to a VFR GPS com.  It also has an old KN86 ADF that is inoperable.  I plan on using it as an IFR trainer in the Spring (it will also be my IFR traveling machine).  I'd like an IFR GPS, but between the box and the installation it just isn't in the cards right now.  On the other hand I could replace the inoperable ADF with one that works without spending big money.  Should I?

Double nope. There are very few approaches left in the United States.

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[clh]

homework assignment.    look up how many functioning ndb's there within 300 miles of your home airport.  you can decide then to remove it.

[gsengle]

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/April/14/FAA-releases-list-of-instrument-approaches-to-be-eliminated

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[gsengle]

And as an instrument student wanting to take instruction in your aircraft, I want to learn about GPS, not NDB (although GPS is pretty easy). And last I heard you only get NDB on a check ride if installed...

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[DXB]

The couple pounds useful load gain from pulling it out might be more useful to you than a working one even 

[gsxrpilot]

The wish list I put together before I bought my plane included a No ADF bullet point. I didn't want to sacrifice the Useful Load and didn't want the added expense of paying someone to remove it along with the draggy antenna.  I did want a good "IFR Platform" and that didn't include an ADF.

*there was an ADF in the plane when I took my IA Checkride and I did demonstrate an NDB approach with it.

[kortopates]

Dump the paper weight.

But reconsider that if you only realized how valuable an IFR GPS was for IFR flying you would not want to fly IFR without.

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[gsengle]

And every NDB approach seems to have a GPS overlay with *lower minimums*

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[steingar]

I know how valuable an IFR GPS is, I've seen them in action.  Just don't have the resources to put one in the panel just this second.  That's thousands, versus hundreds for the ADF.  This the Genesis of my question.  Now if someone wants to shell out the cash so my airplane can have a nice IFR GPS, I've never taken charity but never been terribly averse to it either.

[1964-M20E]

3 hours ago, gsengle said:

And as an instrument student wanting to take instruction in your aircraft, I want to learn about GPS, not NDB (although GPS is pretty easy). And last I heard you only get NDB on a check ride if installed...

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Not really I took my ride several years ago and my plane had an ADF at the time.  Just GPS, ILS and VOR approaches. Others may have different experiences.

[OR75]

Get rid of it. Unless you plan to fly to Alaska or cross the Atlantic . 

[Bob_Belville]

When I upgraded my panel 3 years ago I sold a KR87 ADF and a Garmin 155 GPS IFR TSO. The Garmin IFR GPS sold for $1050 and the ADF for $880. Both were working when removed.

My point, you might swap out you ADF for a basic but IFR legal GPS for less than you might suppose. Your VFR GPS might have a nicer moving map but the 155 would make you legal IFR. 

Talk to a small avionics shop about what you're trying to do.

http://www.bennettavionics.com/gps.html

 

[gsengle]

I know how valuable an IFR GPS is, I've seen them in action.  Just don't have the resources to put one in the panel just this second.  That's thousands, versus hundreds for the ADF.  This the Genesis of my question.  Now if someone wants to shell out the cash so my airplane can have a nice IFR GPS, I've never taken charity but never been terribly averse to it either.

Yes but if you spend money on an ADF, you'll be that much farther from saving up for a GPS...

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[steingar]

9 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

When I upgraded my panel 3 years ago I sold a KR87 ADF and a Garmin 155 GPS IFR TSO. The Garmin IFR GPS sold for $1050 and the ADF for $880. Both were working when removed.

My point, you might swap out you ADF for a basic but IFR legal GPS for less than you might suppose. Your VFR GPS might have a nicer moving map but the 155 would make you legal IFR. 

Talk to a small avionics shop about what you're trying to do.

http://www.bennettavionics.com/gps.html

 

Already did.  The problem with installing a GPS is even if the box costs 1 AMU, you can easily blow through 2 AMUs putting it in.  Antenna, annunciator, having it make the connections it needs to make can get expensive.  That's always the rub in installing old avionics, do you really want to spend thousands to put old boxes in that are as likely s not to break and that may not even be supported by their manufacturer?

 

I blew through $500 once to put in headset jacks for my back seat passengers.  It cost 2 AMUs to install a number 2 comm in my old airplane.  These things cost big money.  I guess that's why I was so tempted when I realized I could just replace a faulty component with something that was plug and play.  

 

So the ADF stays where it is.  Who knows, maybe I'll be able to listen to ballgames.

[Bob_Belville]

16 hours ago, steingar said:

The Lucky Strike, my M20C, is equipped with a KX155 with glideslope and a King NDB, in addition to a VFR GPS com.  It also has an old KN86 ADF that is inoperable.

What's a King NDB? What's a VFR GPS com?

 

[steingar]

The GPS is a klx 135a, I think the DME is a KN-62a. 

[DAVIDWH]

Before you GC your ADF you might want to research China's nanosecond flash bang strategy for disabling our GPS satellites.

Been there three times and I can tell you their military is both capable and serious.

On second thought, if that should happen, I suspect maintaining an ADF would not be too high on the priority list.

[ArtVandelay]

Before you GC your ADF you might want to research China's nanosecond flash bang strategy for disabling our GPS satellites.

Been there three times and I can tell you their military is both capable and serious.

On second thought, if that should happen, I suspect maintaining an ADF would not be too high on the priority list.

Only problem is China uses those GPS satellites as well.

Second, if you want ground navigation, VORs are still with us, we are losing some VOR approaches, but ILS will be with us for some time, just minus the marker beacons.

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, DAVIDWH said:

Before you GC your ADF you might want to research China's nanosecond flash bang strategy for disabling our GPS satellites.

Been there three times and I can tell you their military is both capable and serious.

On second thought, if that should happen, I suspect maintaining an ADF would not be too high on the priority list.

 

[steingar]

I think if the Chinese take out our GPS systems we'll have much, much bigger worries than IFR approaches.  It isn't the threat of looming armageddon that keeps me from installing one, just simple economics.  That said, I am a scientist.  I see the world through instruments, it comes naturally to me.  Moreover, lots of guys flew IFR long before there were GPS satellites or receivers.  If they could do so can I.  And if I can't, well then I don't deserve to be called a pilot.

[ArtVandelay]

Yes, you can fly without GPS, but GPS LPV approaches are becoming common place and open up a lot of smaller airports when ceilings are low. And for situation awareness nothing beats it.

The only ADF approach I've ever done was in a simulator.

[Jerry 5TJ]

12 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

...The only ADF approach I've ever done was in a simulator.

Lucky you.  At least I never had to fly an A-N Range approach.

[Bob_Belville]

56 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

 

The only ADF approach I've ever done was in a simulator.

I've done enough for both of us.