'Nother Gill bites the dust. G-243S

[rogerl]

who owns it

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by rogerl

[carqwik]

Almost 3 years out of a Gill 243S?  You should be thankful....

 

Switch to the Concorde RG24-15....and get the right BatteryMinder. 

[LANCECASPER]

For the Concorde RG24-15 it's the Battery Minder with the S5 suffix (24041-AA-S5) and then get a 210-AY splitter which allows the one Battery Minder to take care of both batteries. No reason you can't get 5-7 years out of your batteries with that set-up.

[rogerl]

Almost 3 years out of a Gill 243S?  You should be thankful....

 

Switch to the Concorde RG24-15....and get the right BatteryMinder. 

I had thought to go with the 11M as the manifold tubes are installed thus would be a direct replace ... any +/- on that decision ?

[carqwik]

Just ordered that 210AY splitter with the alligator clips from AC Spruce....great tip...! $29.95 plus shipping.

 

The Bravo takes the 24-15....no manifold tubes.  What are you flying?

[M20F]

I had thought to go with the 11M as the manifold tubes are installed thus would be a direct replace ... any +/- on that decision ?

On my phone so hassle to look it up but odds are you technically need an updated W&B to put the 24-15 in.

[rogerl]

Just ordered that 210A(

The Bravo takes the 24-15....no manifold tubes.  What are you flying?

An O1 (99).

Unfortunately it's "community hangared" and thus it's impossible to trail a cord for a minder.

[Hank]

I put in a Concorde, according to the writing, in Dec 2010. Don't own a battery minder, but do have a walmart battery charger just in case.

P.S.--capacity check is done every year at annual. Passed easily in late January, my new A&P was surprised.

[N33GG]

+1 Concorde

Period.

Just my experience, YMMV

[Steve65E-NC]

Sorry, your senerion does not wash for me.  I hope you hac checked alternator output at battery and all connections before discarding the battery.  Even a very dead battery will hold some sort of charge longer than you describe.

[philiplane]

Neither the G243S nor the RG11 series batteries are intended to last more than 3 years in service without proper care. Build it into your budget.

 

The problem is that no one is really servicing these high performance batteries correctly. You have to do the 12 month and thereafter 6 month capacity checks to ensure long service life. If you aren't equipped to do them, then replace the battery after 36 months in service since its no longer possible to do a proper deep cycle and recover full capacity. 

 

It's in the maintenance manual.... the one that comes with the battery but virtually no one reads.

[carusoam]

RogerL,

I am still on the Gil replacements because my mechanic swapped out a dead one without asking any additional detail. I forgot to bring my concerns to his attention when he told me what he was doing...

I have the fancy Gil battery charger to go with the evil pair of batteries...

I am leaning towards changing over to gel cell type batteries. It would probably take someone at concorde to explain the proper battery model to change to, to properly swap out a single Gil wet cell for a Concorde gel cell.

From my brief look at the challenge, the Mooney system is robust enough to handle two different batteries. But I don't know if one type of battery could kill off the other while they are charging together. It seems that it can be done without too much worry.

Should we contact Concorde to find out?

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

It won't kill off the other, it's just 1 battery might not get 100% charged. The gel types require slightly different voltages for optimum charging, there are 2 different battery minders for the different battery types. Ideally you should replace the voltage regulator. On my boat I have 3 stage chargers which have setting to select battery type.

The problem with wet cells is they require maintenance which they don't get and they don't do as well to being idle for long periods.

Batteries will die suddenly, my battery died on a hot start, a Gill, but it was almost 7 years old, we will see how well the new one lasts.

[LANCECASPER]

RogerL,

I am still on the Gil replacements because my mechanic swapped out a dead one without asking any additional detail. I forgot to bring my concerns to his attention when he told me what he was doing...

I have the fancy Gil battery charger to go with the evil pair of batteries...

I am leaning towards changing over to gel cell type batteries. It would probably take someone at concorde to explain the proper battery model to change to, to properly swap out a single Gil wet cell for a Concorde gel cell.

From my brief look at the challenge, the Mooney system is robust enough to handle two different batteries. But I don't know if one type of battery could kill off the other while they are charging together. It seems that it can be done without too much worry.

Should we contact Concorde to find out?

Best regards,

-a-

 

Your Ovation would use the RG24-15 Concorde model. I have two in my airplane. I went through Gills in my Bravo and finally bit the bullet and bought Concordes - much longer lasting. It's worth it to keep them on the correct Battery Minder though.

[ArtVandelay]

He also said that there should be no problem in running one Concorde and one Gill in parallel, as they will equalize.

In the battery world: when a battery is equalized, that means it's overcharged to reverse the affects mention above, I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. Sophisticated battery charges do this for about a hour every month, don't know if the battery minder does this or not.

[orionflt]

I just pulled a gill 7000 series out of a plane, it was in there just over 18 months, replaced it with a concord with a battery minder.

\

Brian

[StevenL757]

For the Concorde RG24-15 it's the Battery Minder with the S5 suffix (24041-AA-S5) and then get a 210-AY splitter which allows the one Battery Minder to take care of both batteries. No reason you can't get 5-7 years out of your batteries with that set-up.

Or, one could save money on the battery minder, fly the airplane once a week, and still get at least 5 to 7 years out of the Concordes.

[philiplane]

 

Not sure if you include the 35 axp in 'high performance' battery statement, but that battery in my previous plane (a J) lasted over 5 years (and last I heard was still going) in the same conditions;

Of course I bow to your stated qualifications, however I fail to understand the positive impact of 'capacity test' upon the life of the battery, and according to the concorde smm (caps from original):

 

CAUTION

(1): A CONDITIONING CHARGE IS ONLY NECESSARY IF THE BATTERY FAILS THE CAPACITY TEST. THIS PROCEDURE MAY SHORTEN THE BATT

ERY'S LIFE IF PERFORMED ON A REPETITIVE BASIS.

 

The capacity check is the only method of driving the electrons to the respective plate so the battery will have full capacity. Discharging the battery according to the manual, and then recharging it accordingly, is what restores the balance to the plates. Concorde and Gill list the proper charge rates which MUST be done according to schedule. Each one missed will reduce the service life of the battery.

 

Operating 15-20 of both types of batteries in one fleet, I found that neither had an advantage. The Concorde RG was far more likely to suddenly die in the 30-36 month period than a flooded battery. This is starting IO-550 Continentals in an ideal environment, where the plane is flying almost daily and logging 400-800 hours annually. 

 

The higher the batteries' output, the shorter the expected life will be because of one simple fact. Installing more plates to increase capacity reduces the spacing, making internal shorts from overcharging or high current inrush much more likely. So the -15 battery is more likely to fail than the -11 battery. The same with the AXC versus the standard 35 series.

[jetdriven]

In theory, yes.  But in actual practice, the Gill's last 2-3 years while the Concordes last 5-7 years. Theres lots of evidence of that.   Plus the Concorde doesnt puke acid all over your battery box and out the vent onto the belly, which eats up aluminum and costs major $$$ to repair.

[ArtVandelay]

In theory, yes. But in actual practice, the Gill's last 2-3 years while the Concordes last 5-7 years. Theres lots of evidence of that. Plus the Concorde doesnt puke acid all over your battery box and out the vent onto the belly, which eats up aluminum and costs major $$$ to repair.

If that happens, you're overcharging.

[Hank]

If that happens, you're overcharging.

 

It happened to me, and I only ever charged my Gill when it wouldn't turn over the prop. Haven't had a charger hooked up since December 2010, when I put in my Concorde. Don't own a battery minder of any flavor. Four and a half years and going strong!

[mooniac15u]

Or, one could save money on the battery minder, fly the airplane once a week, and still get at least 5 to 7 years out of the Concordes.

 

Flying every week is not an option for everyone.

[Andy95W]

It happened to me, and I only ever charged my Gill when it wouldn't turn over the prop. Haven't had a charger hooked up since December 2010, when I put in my Concorde. Don't own a battery minder of any flavor. Four and a half years and going strong!

+1. My experience exactly, and throw in some cold Michigan winters to boot.

[DonMuncy]

From what I have been told, hot weather is a lot worse on batteries than cold weather. My personal experience is that batteries have a mind of their own, in that they give up whenever they decide to.

[M20F]

My personal experience is that batteries have a mind of their own, in that they give up whenever they decide to.

+1 and I also find Concorde better than Gil.