Ipad mounting requirements and the FAA???

[dcrogers11]

A good friend of mine is going for his IFR checkride tomorrow here in Texas.  The FAA examiner was talking with him on preparation and Pete asked him if he could use his iPad during the flight.  He said yes, but stated that it could only be held or secured using something like a Sporty's kneeboard holder.  He said that the FAA would not allow it to be affixed to the plane in any form such as a Ram-Mount.  He mentioned that this was big on their "hit list" and if you are approached by an official looking individual on the ramp, that you should remove any such mounting device or face a fine if caught.  

 

I've looked briefly on the web and haven't found such a ruling.  Anyone here heard anything regarding this?

 

Thanks,

Don

[dcrogers11]

Sorry for the duplicate post.  Moderator, please delete.

Don

[Marauder]

... sigh ...

(My Grandmother told me all the time, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.")

This being nice phase you are going through is killing you, isn't it?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

A good friend of mine is going for his IFR checkride tomorrow here in Texas. The FAA examiner was talking with him on preparation and Pete asked him if he could use his iPad during the flight. He said yes, but stated that it could only be held or secured using something like a Sporty's kneeboard holder. He said that the FAA would not allow it to be affixed to the plane in any form such as a Ram-Mount. He mentioned that this was big on their "hit list" and if you are approached by an official looking individual on the ramp, that you should remove any such mounting device or face a fine if caught.

I've looked briefly on the web and haven't found such a ruling. Anyone here heard anything regarding this?

Thanks,

Don

I never heard of this and if this is indeed their stance, then every GoPro'r who mounted something to their plane better be concerned as well.

I would call another FSDO and hear what they say.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Maybe Garmins have a lock on temporary mounted electronics on the yoke.

Or maybe the FAA guy is short and can't see over it to the other instruments.

Wait until you tell him he doesn't have brakes on his side.

What's wrong with putting your iPad on your knee?

It's better than those books that always fall off and close up...?

At least the FAA guy is answering questions in advance. Ask away...

Thoughts that come to mind,

-a-

[atn_pilot]

I hate FSDOs that make up their own rules.

[dcrogers11]

Aside from the hard stance on the iPad mount, he said that he was quite obliging in all other areas.  He's an older gentleman that others have used for check rides and they would all use him again.  One thing that I found interesting was when asked about the use of his autopilot to fly the approaches, he said that he could on ALL the various approaches and not just one that I've always heard about.  

 

I'll hear more tomorrow after he completes his test and report back.

 

Don

[Deb]

From Dave Shuster at Beechtalk:

FAA guidance:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-173.pdf

[carusoam]

Nice document, Deb.

Certainly explains the challenges the FAA guy is going to see when the most unique pilot shows up.

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

I would do what is needed for the check ride or find another DPE.  Then I would move on and do what I feel works the best for my particular situation.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Not really Chris, I have always been nice, (at least I think so ... ) but just don't come across that way on the forum ...

+1

[helitim]

Interesting you mention this topic. Just a few days ago, a pilot at my home field had to ride with an FAA examiner who asked about the Stratus box mounted in the floor of the plane. This FAA rep. said there needed to be an airframe logbook entry since it was hard wired and had a cover holding it. No mention that it could not be used, was illegal or any other issue.

Guess it just depends on where you fly as to what rules they use.

I need an emoticon scratching his head to add to this post because I'm confused by the arbitrary nature of the agency.

[midlifeflyer]

Nice document, Deb.

Certainly explains the challenges the FAA guy is going to see when the most unique pilot shows up.

Best regards,

-a-

Not really. AC 20-173 "addresses installation of EFB components." That means EFBs that are "incorporated into aircraft type design under 14 CFR part 21 or as a proper alteration under 14 CFR 43.3." The FAA guy is going to correctly expect to see that the installation either came from the manufacturer that way or there is an STC in the aircraft logs.

 

Like the rest of the AC 20 series, it primarily provides airworthiness guidance on how tog go about obtaining airworthiness approval for an installed component. What we are doing with our yoke clamps and our "portable" (not "installed") tablets is not covered by the AC, although it does mention them. 

[Marauder]

Interesting you mention this topic. Just a few days ago, a pilot at my home field had to ride with an FAA examiner who asked about the Stratus box mounted in the floor of the plane. This FAA rep. said there needed to be an airframe logbook entry since it was hard wired and had a cover holding it. No mention that it could not be used, was illegal or any other issue.

Guess it just depends on where you fly as to what rules they use.

I need an emoticon scratching his head to add to this post because I'm confused by the arbitrary nature of the agency.

Any of us who have moved around the country with our planes can tell you how different FSDOs can be. What is okay with one, isn't with another.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cliffy]

If the pilot can remove it without tools there will be no issue. Anything else will be up to the Fed looking at it. I know of one Fed that went ballistic over a Garmin 496 mounted in a helicopter with screws and nuts

"Anything else" has to be an STC, major alteration or minor alteration and signed off per the regs.

[AndyFromCB]

I love the paranoia created by the FAA. My DPE flipped out when he noticed my annual did not specifically state that the GNS430 had its screen cleaned and was verified to still be attached to the aircraft. Would not go up in the aircraft until mechanic made an entry stating he performed the above. Not shitting you, but if you look in the Garmin STC, these tasks are required to be performed annually and logged for continued airworthiness. 

[jetdriven]

That FAA inspector is full of it. First of all, I looked up the ICA for the GNS-500 series navigators and it does say that "in the preceding 12 months" and lists a check for security, legibility of knobs, corrosion, and wiring. Fine. But those dark bars to the right indicate a revision change, it was added later. Some of these Bozos have made a career of taking a revision change out the next day and "busting" operators who are unaware.

There is no regulatory requirement for logbooks. It can be a slip of tissue paper. It's aircraft records, which may also be destroyed after one year or the date the work was superseded.

But the next item says the screen "MAY" be cleaned with water. Not "must", "shall", or "will". So, not required.

You "may" pull +3.5 and -1.0 "G" In a commercial airliner with passengers onboard. Perhaps we should do that annually and log it.

[triple8s]

I was told anything that was connected to ships power needed field approval, or have an STC. I have an Airgizmo for my Ipad mini and wanted to wire it so it would charge, but my mechanic said it wasnt legal. He said as long as it had it own power source and wasnt wired into ships power it is ok. He said it was ok to use cigarette plug just not to hard wire it in.

[midlifeflyer]

I love the paranoia created by the FAA.

most FAA paranoia is created by us, not the FAA.

[Andy95W]

That FAA inspector is full of it.

There is no regulatory requirement for logbooks. It can be a slip of tissue paper. It's aircraft records, which may also be destroyed after one year or the date the work was superseded.

image.jpg

Agreed, but there is a grey area: the regs say that a "record of all work performed" must be annotated in the aircraft records. But if that were truly the case, you would have records like, "inspected left elevator. Inspected right elevator." etc. Taken further, you may have to write, "inspected third rib from left wingtip. Inspected fourth rib from left wingtip" etc.

So I agree with you. It doesn't need to be noted because it is included in the Annual Inspection sign off, which means that all Instructions for Continued Airworthiness were completed.

[jetdriven]

I was told anything that was connected to ships power needed field approval, or have an STC. I have an Airgizmo for my Ipad mini and wanted to wire it so it would charge, but my mechanic said it wasnt legal. He said as long as it had it own power source and wasnt wired into ships power it is ok. He said it was ok to use cigarette plug just not to hard wire it in.

What reg is he quoting? There are major alterations by definition. Everything else is minor.

[AndyFromCB]

That FAA inspector is full of it. First of all, I looked up the ICA for the GNS-500 series navigators and it does say that "in the preceding 12 months" and lists a check for security, legibility of knobs, corrosion, and wiring. Fine. But those dark bars to the right indicate a revision change, it was added later. Some of these Bozos have made a career of taking a revision change out the next day and "busting" operators who are unaware.

There is no regulatory requirement for logbooks. It can be a slip of tissue paper. It's aircraft records, which may also be destroyed after one year or the date the work was superseded.

But the next item says the screen "MAY" be cleaned with water. Not "must", "shall", or "will". So, not required.

You "may" pull +3.5 and -1.0 "G" In a commercial airliner with passengers onboard. Perhaps we should do that annually and log it.

image.jpg

 

I wasn't going to argue. Paid the mechanic $35 for a logbook entry, took the check ride…Otherwise I was not going to be able to use the GPS during the check ride. I felt that arguing with the DPE was going to be counter productive ;-)

[triple8s]

What reg is he quoting? There are major alterations by definition. Everything else is minor.

Byron

Not sure, at one point I would get interference between the 430 and Ipad when it was charging (breaks squelch) anyhow so I let it go and charge it out of the A/C since then. Its just I really hate lots of wires running everywhere in front of the panel.

[DAVIDWH]

Had one FAA examiner ask me about paperwork for the welded hitch on the front of my golf cart tow.

 

Sometimes, you just got to enjoy their sense of humor....

 

Best

[jastu23]

I took my Instrument check ride 4/11/15 in Mckinney, TX. I have the iPad mini ram mounted to my yoke. Works great there by the way. My examiner, who was wonderful, was perfectly fine with this. Although, had I not brought paper backup charts, I got the strong feeling he would not have allowed the ride. Passed too!

Jason

N1137Z