M20C Yaw in rough air

[rth119]

I just purchased a 1963 M20C, and after flying it recently I noticed the tail to yaw back and forth sometimes during cruise. I've been trying to find out if this is normal, or if there is a problem. Doing some research on the web seems to show that it may be a normal occurrence in Mooneys in rough air before the PC system was implemented. I would appreciate any advice or experience with this effect.

[carusoam]

I get yaw in rough air too...in my long body R.

Planes are light, and don't resist rotations caused by bumps all that precisely.

Welcome aboard!

How stable is your C in smooth air?

Does your PC system include directional control or is it just wing leveler?

Now, if you said you fly a V tail, and you had harmonic yaw all the time... That would be different...

To have a 60’s plane accurately smooth out the yaw caused by bumps you would have a computer the size of the back seats.

To minimize yaw, find a larger, heavier, plane with a larger tail further from the C of G...

Or, fly at higher altitudes with less bumps...

Are your feet on the pedals?

I'm voting on this is normal. What are you expecting?

Best regards,

-a-

[PMcClure]

I found to damper yaw in turbulence, I can put pressure on the rudder (both peddles). Seems to help. I don't mind yaw but pax seem to get uneasy with excessive yawing!

[bonal]

Our C will waggle its tail a bit when we hit rough air it's just a nice gentle wiggle that always goes away after the first few shakes. Some times if I have taken my feet off the pedals it will be a bit stronger until I get my feet back where they belong.

Congrats on your Mooney. Do tell a bit about your self and your C

[Hank]

I've never particularly noticed yaw in turbulence, only roll, pitching and lurching. My non-rated wife agrees. We made a lunch run today, low in the bumps, so our memories are pretty fresh.

[bonal]

A lot depends on the nature of the rough air. I always get my first hint that we are about to enter some unstable air by that gentle little yaw.

[BigTex]

I get the Mooney Waggle from time to time and it doesn't bother me at all but it does bugger my wife some. For me it seems to show up more if gusty conditions than bumpy air.

[kerry]

As soon as I finish my climb my ball stays steady as a rock.  My pitch is a different story.

[1964-M20E]

My E did this my F it seems to be less but still does.  Don't worry and enjoy the ride people pay Disney and 6 Flags good money for that.

[pinerunner]

I get that a bit in my E. I think all the short bodied Mooneys do it a bit.

[DAVIDWH]

Looking for yaw?

 

Anybody flew a V-Bonanza lately?

 

PS:

 

The long bodies are longitudinally stable.

[FloridaMan]

My F feels like you're flying a surfboard, as if it wants to slide off of localized pressure increases under the wing. 

[carusoam]

There is a rumor that I may have flown in a V tail once while visiting the RRHoF...

-a-

[rth119]

Our C will waggle its tail a bit when we hit rough air it's just a nice gentle wiggle that always goes away after the first few shakes. Some times if I have taken my feet off the pedals it will be a bit stronger until I get my feet back where they belong.

Congrats on your Mooney. Do tell a bit about your self and your C

Thanks for all the posts and shared experience. This is my first Mooney, so I'm not sure what is normal and typical for Mooney, and what may be a potential problem. It seems to me that the tail "wiggle" is typical in short body Mooneys, especially ones without PC. My Mooney does not have the PC installed. I think it wasn't available until 1965, and mine is a 1963. I can say the wiggle kind of scared me the first time...thought maybe the rudder was falling off or something. I don't have a lot of experience in general. I'm about a 100 hour private pilot...just got my license this summer. I've only flown C172 and Piper Arrows, and I don't remember ever experiencing the tail wiggle in the cessnas and pipers like I do in this Mooney. But, if it's normal and typical for these older mooneys, then its something I'll get used to and expect. No worries.

[Andy95W]

I've never particularly noticed yaw in turbulence, only roll, pitching and lurching. My non-rated wife agrees. We made a lunch run today, low in the bumps, so our memories are pretty fresh.

I'm with Hank. Never really noticed any wiggle, never really thought about it until this topic came up.

If yours wiggles enough to scare you, as you said above, you should find a decent instructor who has a good amount of Mooney experience to fly with you. He/she will be able to identify if your yaw is excessive compared to other Mooneys and may be able to provide some pointers along the way.

[Marauder]

I'm with Hank. Never really noticed any wiggle, never really thought about it until this topic came up.

If yours wiggles enough to scare you, as you said above, you should find a decent instructor who has a good amount of Mooney experience to fly with you. He/she will be able to identify if your yaw is excessive compared to other Mooneys and may be able to provide some pointers along the way.

I don't understand the yaw thing either. I will get some wings up and down as well as a pitch bounce in turbulence. Never really noticed a yaw effect.

I am wondering if you guys are experiencing some wear in your rudder Heim joints. Or perhaps I don't notice it because I have my feet on the rudders most of the time.

[PMcClure]

For sure the Ovation is more stable than the F was. But I don't think it is unusual to get some yaw in certain types of turbulence. Every type of plane I have flown has done this, with the F probably the worst.

 

I think some people are more sensitive to it, especially passengers because it is not something you experience in a car (like steep turns too). Watching the ball, I can see some twists and turns in rough air. Keeping pressure on the peddles helps. 

[Hank]

It's difficult for me to keep even pressure on both pedals. Finding myself off course is usually when I realize I'm pushing more on one than on the other. I don't try to keep feet on the rudder unless in significant bounce, but I do keep one hand on the yoke if it's not smooth; when it's rough enough to need both hands is generally when I start getting my feet ready.

[bonal]

My instructor friend told me a story once. he was flying a big transport 4 engine job I think. any way the attendant came up front and said the passengers were uncomfortable because the plane was yawing back and forth. It stopped briefly but then resumed. He later realized he had a song stuck in his head and was tapping the rudder to the beat,

[bonal]

As for my rudder and tail Both are tight and correct no slop or play from pedal to tail. I must admit to sometimes taking my feet off the pedals in straight and level when I do the ball stays planted in the center and Snoopy fly's strait and true, when I hit a little ustable air he lets me know with a slight left right yaw. Its not pitch not roll and settles after a couple of swings. if your sitting in an office chair just swing left and right a few degrees each way slowly and thats what it feels like.

[N601RX]

I think some of the flight reviews on the MAPA site mention the yaw in the short bodies.

[Andy95W]

when it's rough enough to need both hands is generally when I start getting my feet ready.

Good Lord, if it's rough enough to need both hands, I head for home! You're a better man than me!

[carusoam]

Fortunately, we are all different....

Some people enjoy heavy weather sailing too!

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Good Lord, if it's rough enough to need both hands, I head for home! You're a better man than me!

Sometimes that IS on the way home . . . Turbulence happens.

[ryoder]

I haven't noticed this in mine but I'll look out for it. I have positive control but have it disabled a lot of the time. I'll leave it off and try to see what happens when I fly over a thermal and one wing pops up. I bet that is inducing yaw for you.