Dark Night Departures

[Hank]

I thought he took off in the morning, flew all night and landing again during the day. A flashlight out at sea is pretty worthless for seeing past the panel.

[Gone]

I thought he took off in the morning, flew all night and landing again during the day.

5:22 pm New York time (11:22 pm Paris time) on 21 May 1927.

Flanders

Sent from my iPad

[mooniac15u]

A flashlight out at sea is pretty worthless for seeing past the panel.

 

He couldn't see past the panel during the day. The Spirit of St. Louis didn't have a windshield. There was a large fuel tank directly in front of the cockpit.  Forward visability was via periscope or leaning out a side window.

[1964-M20E]

How did Lindberg ever do it without all the gadgets we have today? OH he had 1 flashlight

Couldn't afford the weight of a backup flashlight.

[Piloto]

I agree with Jim. You are better off engaging the A/P than following the Flight Director cue.

 

José

[WardHolbrook]

Hank must never of had the pleasure of dealing with the FAA before.  I had a drop in oil pressure on downwind and asked to cut in front of a student on a typical student pattern (looong legs).  Despite not declaring an emergency, they rolled the trucks.  When they spoke to me at my hangar they asked a single question - how much fuel was on board.  Really?  That is the important question?  Turns out the FAA believes if you claim an oil pressure issue you really are out of fuel and don't want to admit it.  Fortunately, I had a full tank but the idea of declaring an emergency or telling ATC something that might be construed as an emergency is something I strongly avoid.  Terrible advise, I know, and contrary to everything the FAA should be doing but the stupid government gets confused on what is right from what is bureaucratic.

 

So, Hank, it matters because of the pain we go through for declaring an emergency.

I missed this post. The number of people on board and amount of fuel are normal questions anytime an emergency is declared. When the trucks roll, they'd like to have some sort of idea of what they might have to content with in case there was a fire.

 

The pilot is not the only one who can declare an emergency, ATC can do it for you and they frequently do. No need to be paranoid, your experience sounds totally above board to me. As for the "pains" we go through for declaring an emergency. I've had to do it a handful of times and a couple of times I did get a call from the FSDO wondering why. When I told them their response was essentially. "Oh, OK" and that was the end of it. Now, if you do something really stupid, like run out of gas or if you're VFR only and find yourself stuck on top of a solid cloud layer, then you'll likely be asked to explain yourself in great detail, but what else would you expect? 

[WardHolbrook]

With all due respect.....just don't rely on them 100%.  V bars (single cue) as well as the duel cue FD can give you false information.  Garbage in garbage out in regard to what you want commanded.  There are many times in all planes that have FD's that you must fly through them.  Meaning ignore what the FD is telling you and go back to just ADI ASI VSI and Altimeter.  Use the FD as a guide and back it up with your performance instruments.  Do it long enough and you will come across times when following the FD would have been deadly.  

Well, not so if you use them properly. I've been flying behind FDs for over 12.000 hours and have never, ever had a problem nor have I ever seen or heard of a problem with any of the guys I've ever flown or trained with. Using a FD for every takeoff is SOP for turbine powered aircraft and there's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be used in your piston single if it's so equipped. As for autopilot usage down low, there may be limitations in the AFM regarding the use below a certain altitude, so yes, use the V-Bars and if you're having problems with them get some training. But seriously, how can you muff up Go Around and Heading or NAV?  And of course you don't fixate on the FD, you always back it up with your other instruments, it's called scanning - that's what instrument pilots do. 

[DAVIDWH]

I think spatial disorientation can affect anyone:

 

Had it in extreme turbulence and never want to revisit.  Not one instrument useful, all a continuous blur.

 

 

A bit of history on post midnight takeoffs:  (The Day The Music Died)   Pilot Rodger Peterson, 1947 Bonanza with 250 hours in type in the previous six months.

 

Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and Chantilly Lace fame, The Big Bopper. Who was ill at the time and gracious Waylon Jennings gave up his seat.

 

RIP.

 

I think it can affect anyone and if the above is any indication,  not sure how much experience helps. I know I do not have 250 hours in type in the previous six months.

[mooniac15u]

I think spatial disorientation can affect anyone:

 

Had it in extreme turbulence and never want to revisit.  Not one instrument useful, all a continuous blur.

 

 

A bit of history on post midnight takeoffs:  (The Day The Music Died)   Pilot Rodger Peterson, 1947 Bonanza with 250 hours in type in the previous six months.

 

Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and Chantilly Lace fame, The Big Bopper. Who was ill at the time and gracious Waylon Jennings gave up his seat.

 

RIP.

 

I think it can affect anyone and if the above is any indication,  not sure how much experience helps. I know I do not have 250 hours in type in the previous six months.

 

Peterson wasn't instrument rated and only had 128 hours total in the Bonanza.

 

From the CAB report on the accident:

 

Roger Arthur Peters, 21 years old, was regularly employed by Dwyer Flying Service as a commercial pilot and flight instructor, and had been with them bout one year. He had been flying since October of 1954, and had accumulated 711 flying hours, of which 128 were in Bonanza aircraft. Almost all of the Bonanza time was acquired during charter flights. He had approximately 52 hours of dual instrument training and had passed his instrument written examination. He fail an instrument flight check on March 21, 1958, nine months prior to the accident. His last CAA second-class physical examination was taken March 29, 1958. A hearing deficiency of his right Ear was found and because of this he was given a flight test. A waiver noting this hearing deficiency was issued November 29, 1958. According to his associates, he was a young married man who built his life around flying. When his instrument training was taken, several aircraft were used and these were all equipped with the conventional type artificial horizon and none with the Sperry Attitude Gyro such as was installed in Bonanza N 3794N. These two instruments differ greatly in their pictorial display.

 

[Jim Peace]

I agree with Jim. You are better off engaging the A/P than following the Flight Director cue.

 

José

Not really what I was saying.....

[Jim Peace]

Well, not so if you use them properly. I've been flying behind FDs for over 12.000 hours and have never, ever had a problem nor have I ever seen or heard of a problem with any of the guys I've ever flown or trained with. 

Well with only 12.000 hours you have no real point of reference......maybe in a few years with more experience you will come across a plane with a FD that is not behaving well with the other boxes....it does happen

 

Jim

[carusoam]

Suppose Ward meant 12,000 hrs...

Would that mean he has a hint more than 12.0 hrs experience to draw from?

Just sayin',

-a-

[rockydoc]

On cross country trips I always top off both tanks.  Therefore, I had sufficient fuel to fly around until dawn or even make it to a lighted airport.  However, as any of you know, bad accidents rarely occur when just one thing goes wrong--it takes several malfunctions at the same time to turn an "inconvenience" into a crash.  Therefore, when the electrical system failed, it could have been a warning of a multi-system electrical problem.  i.e magnetos filing next?  Who knows, eh.  To us, the best course of action was to land safely as soon as practical.  A night landing at an unlighted small airport only makes you become more focused and careful about your "go, no go" decision making process.  If you are a seasoned pilot, it is just a minor "speed bump" in your day.

Rocky