VFR Trip Planning / Paper Sectionals vs Electronics

[MooneyBob]

I am wondering. With all the navigational apps, external GPS units, glass cockpits, iPads, iPhones, etc. does anybody still use manual VFR Xcountry trip calculations, EB6, Xwind corrections, visual waypoints every 15 miles or so, paper flight plan forms, paper sectionals on the lap?

How safe do we feel to go electronics only? I am talking about VFR flying.

I love to use them and I trust them. I use two independent iPADs ( regular and mini both with Garmin Pilot App ), GDL39 3D that connect to both of them simultaneously plus Garmin GLO GPS as another back up, multiple battery packs and chargers, backup handheld radio. Plus you have weather, terrain, traffic ( kind of ) and other info right there ready for you.

It just seems much easier, safer and enjoyable to fly with help of these gadgets. All the charts are current all the time and you don't have to think what sectional to use and keep on the lap. You don't have to search for the waypoints and get nervous if you don't see one.

But I am very fresh pilot and I could be wrong.

 

[rbridges]

I haven't had any paper in my cockpit in a long time.  The only exception is a sheet of paper on a clipboard to copy instructions from ATC.  between the 430 and foreflight, I feel I'm pretty well covered.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I've been electronic only for 3-4 years. I don't miss the weight and clutter of paper charts in the cockpit at all and would never go back.

[flyboy0681]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I still don't trust the iPad enough on approaches and still carry paper approach plates. I feel that it's cheap insurance.

[carusoam]

I think it may have been the magenta line that took over for paper cross wind correction calculations.

The primary failure was the lack of actual wind conditions at the altitude and location that you are really flying.

The actual technology that obsoleted the accuracy of paper came at different times for different planes.

The A/P tracking a VOR was pretty good. Scalloped lines following radio contours were the norm.

Loran gave an imaginary line without a magenta display.

Portable Garmin devices supplied straight lines in black and white early on.

The top dog of Magenta lines has got to be a panel mounted WAAS capable GPS with GPSS.

As far as planning goes...

It is often done the same way as the traditional paper method, but done on line in an automated fashion with Gobs of actual weather data available...

Watch the number of Aspen navigators with an air data computer telling the pilot what the wind speed and direction is in the moment..

Also,

Use caution and understand the difference between primary navigation and support for situational awareness. iPads are nice in the support role. Right?

That's my memory of how the magenta line evolved, my memory is fuzzy at best.

I initially got an iPad to alleviate the volumes of data related to IFR approaches. Finding the right approach in a bumpy cockpit was an unexpected challenge.

Best regards,

-a-

[Cruiser]

I am wondering. With all the navigational apps, external GPS units, glass cockpits, iPads, iPhones, etc. does anybody still use manual VFR Xcountry trip calculations, EB6, Xwind corrections, visual waypoints every 15 miles or so, paper flight plan forms, paper sectionals on the lap?

How safe do we feel to go electronics only? I am talking about VFR flying.

I love to use them and I trust them. I use two independent iPADs ( regular and mini both with Garmin Pilot App ), GDL39 3D that connect to both of them simultaneously plus Garmin GLO GPS as another back up, multiple battery packs and chargers, backup handheld radio. Plus you have weather, terrain, traffic ( kind of ) and other info right there ready for you.

It just seems much easier, safer and enjoyable to fly with help of these gadgets. All the charts are current all the time and you don't have to think what sectional to use and keep on the lap. You don't have to search for the waypoints and get nervous if you don't see one.

But I am very fresh pilot and I could be wrong.

 

How many pencils did you carry with you when you used paper?

[201er]

I still keep a paper sectional around. Couldn't imagine flying without it some days. Flying into the sun without a shade can be a real bi!$#

[Bob_Belville]

I have a 35 year old real pilot's leather flight bag with 6 large, very full Jepp binders in the luggage compartment. I understand moving cg back is a speed mod.

[flyboy0681]

I have a 35 year old real pilot's leather flight bag with 6 large, very full Jepp binders in the luggage compartment. I understand moving cg back is a speed mod.

 

Jepps are so 20th century. I just carry a bound copy of the NACO approach plates that I would need to use.

[Danb]

Like 201er I have a current chart around..never been opened though, I've been electronic since anywhere map 8-9 yrs ago, but I have current Jepps enroutes with me, a g1000 for primary nav, an iPad, and 696.. To much unused stuff..until we need it. C/n believe 39 yrs ago 6 pack avionics wet compass blah blah..never got lost and now feel I need all this stuff? When will it end and where do we go next..? The Loren was so hi-tech now gone..elect. E6-b hot stuff, listening to radio on adf cool.using the needle for storm detection oh how things are evolving or evolved...

[Danb]

Bob think your showing your age

[Bob - S50]

I do not plan on using paper.  I have no desire to go IFR in the cockpit (unable to see because all the paper is blocking my view).

 

However, if you want to use paper as a backup, you could print parts of the sectional off the internet or copy parts of your paper sectional using your printer.  You could then do what we used to do in the AF when we flew a low level route.  We would plot the route, cut the chart up to give us just the route and some distance (maybe 10 or 20 miles both sides of the route) and create a folded strip chart.  Made it smaller for use in the cockpit and easy to use because all you had to do was flip to the next section as you flew off the piece you were looking at.  When we made the plot, we would estimate the groundspeed and put tick marks every so often (5 minutes would probably work for the Mooney).  Using an elapsed timer we would then have a good idea of where we should be at any given time and if we were ahead or behind on the timing.

 

Whatever you decide, have fun.

 

Bob

[PMcClure]

I keep a sectional of my home area and a approach book for my state. The sectional has only been used as a sun visor extension and the approach book is only used for hanger flying and nostalgic feel. I find the iPad very stable, and have the 530 and 430 with practically all the same info. The only problem I have run into with the iPad is max operating temp. Even on very cold IFR days it can overheat in direct sunlight. That is what the chart is used for!

[201er]

The only problem I have run into with the iPad is max operating temp. Even on very cold IFR days it can overheat in direct sunlight. That is what the chart is used for!

How could I forget, a paper chart makes a great sun shade to keep the ipad cool. Done that too!

[flyboy0681]

 I find the iPad very stable, and have the 530 and 430 with practically all the same info. 

 

Outside of course guidance for an approach, I wasn't aware the 530/430 had the capability to display other items that are on an approach plate, such as GS intercept or step-down altitudes.

[PMcClure]

Outside of course guidance for an approach, I wasn't aware the 530/430 had the capability to display other items that are on an approach plate, such as GS intercept or step-down altitudes.

Hence the "practically" ;^)

[MooneyBob]

At least 4 at different places around the plane and multiple pens. At least two pairs of reading glasses.

[midlifeflyer]

 

 

visual waypoints every 15 miles

 

Wow! I sure hope no one's actually been doing that training exercise once they got their private ticket! Oh, didn't your CFI tell you...? (Mini-rant: I've always thought CFIs not explaining this to their students was the #1 reason for not planning VFR flights).

 

Personally, I've been using electronic flight planning since the early dial-up-by-modem DUAT days. I'm not sure how long ago that was, but I used a DUAT-generated flight plan on my instrument checkride in 1992.

 

But yes, I do still plan flights on sectionals. But they're not paper.

 

And paper's been gone fro my cockpit for about 2-1/2 years now (except for an emergency sticky note pad).

[Hank]

Yes, I do my pre-flight planning with sectionals, a yardstick, pencil and a highlighter. Once I'm in the air and following the magenta line, I  periodically use VOR #2 to crosscheck the 430. I am experimenting with droid programs to replace approach plate books, although once I complete my move, the home area will only require one book instead of three. They stack nicely on the floor when required, at the bottom of the center console below the throttle quadrant.

 

Have not used waypoints since the PPL checkride, maybe a month afterwards. I often have the 430 on the next page showing actual and desired track, groundspeed and time en route rather than always on the map page.

[flyboy0681]

 I'm not sure how long ago that was, but I used a DUAT-generated flight plan on my instrument checkride in 1992.

 

Consider yourself lucky. I took my instrument check ride a few weeks ago and the examiner required me to manually fill in a flight plan.

 

But just like you, I've been using DUAT since it ran only on MS-DOS.

[DonMuncy]

As long as you feel like a very fresh pilot, go ahead and plot it on a chart, do the calculations and check the waypoints. As you gain experience you will gradually get away from it, at a rate that is comfortable to you.

I occasionally cross check VORs, just because I don't have anything else to do on a longer trip, and the regulations require your VORs to be checked periodically for use in IFR.

If you don't have at least two moving map GPS's, you will definitely want to have a paper chart available. For actual use if no GPS and as back-up, if one GPS.

But if you have a moving map, eventually you will probably rely on it and only grab the paper if it goes dark. (In that case you will know where you were when it went dark and can find your spot on the chart.)

Even with a (or multiple) GPS(s), I still keep up with which lake of town that is, as I fly.

For long cross country flights, I dig out and old low altitude enroute chart and figure out the VOR route. I haven't figured out a good overview with VORs on anything else.

Even with my 430, 696 and IPad/ foreflight, I still print out a couple of approaches for my destination airport. Old habits die hard.

[rob]

Only paper I have is for taking notes when talking to ATC. Rarely need that. Feel completely safe with four levels of redundancy, especially when talking about VFR.

[chrisk]

Ok, it's not VFR, but I find paper charts handy for trying to find fixes in a clearance.   And depending on the accent, I sometimes have to ask for phonetics.   I almost always have charts in the plane.  They are usually not more than a few cycles old.

[John Pleisse]

I am always running simple time, speed and distance in my head...or decent rates and profiles. I always have paper back ups.

[Hank]

As long as you feel like a very fresh pilot, go ahead and plot it on a chart, do the calculations and check the waypoints. As you gain experience you will gradually get away from it, at a rate that is comfortable to you.

I occasionally cross check VORs, just because I don't have anything else to do on a longer trip, and the regulations require your VORs to be checked periodically for use in IFR.

If you don't have at least two moving map GPS's, you will definitely want to have a paper chart available. For actual use if no GPS and as back-up, if one GPS.

But if you have a moving map, eventually you will probably rely on it and only grab the paper if it goes dark. (In that case you will know where you were when it went dark and can find your spot on the chart.)

Even with a (or multiple) GPS(s), I still keep up with which lake of town that is, as I fly.

For long cross country flights, I dig out and old low altitude enroute chart and figure out the VOR route. I haven't figured out a good overview with VORs on anything else.

Even with my 430, 696 and IPad/ foreflight, I still print out a couple of approaches for my destination airport. Old habits die hard.

 

I'm 6+ years into Mooney ownership. Paper is great for planning and knowing where I'm going. Low en-routes are too much trouble, but sectionals have lots of good information on them. I delegated VOR checking to my wife when she's awake, it gives her something to do and she usually has the sectional, too, except when I take it away from her to check something. I like to know where I'm going.

 

The last VOR route I plotted out [April '12], to stay low over southern WV and avoid possible icing, I ended up staying on the ground and flying the next day, IMC but no icing. Saw a little snow, kept a close eye out as temps were holding at 39ºF. Even the VOR route had ~40 miles right around the freezing level, but an emergency icing pirep by some poor soul in a Cirrus, on the same airway, made me unpack my suitcase and stay another night.

 

Having a list of airports, VORs and frequencies for both in the order that I will fly past them is easy, cheap insurance, and makes me feel better when the weather is marginal. I just look a little ahead on my list, tune in the weather and see what's happening. Sure, I can do this on my tablet, but it's easier when it's already written down on my kneeboard, no scrolling and zooming to find the info and then scrolling and zooming to get back to where I am at the time.