3 Blade vs 4 blade

[DOC]

I searched and read the previous info on the new 4 blade MT prop from John the company rep (I am assuming).  My question for everyone is:

 

Which would you go with?  The 3 blade Hartzell standard, 3 blade Hartzell that goes on the Acclaim Type S (lighter) or the new 4 blade MT.

 

 

[mike_elliott]

I know one guy who is just waiting for the 4 blade MT to replace his 3 blade Hartzell on his Acclaim type S if that tells you anything.

[carusoam]

I went with the three blade TopProp...

The MT has been slow to deliver, and I'm not usually the first guy to buy such an expensive item....

Literally slow in the finishing of the governmental paperwork.

Two concerns,

(1) light weight composite props have very low rotational inertia, minimum flywheel effect.

(2) four blades are expected to be slower in cruise. Same discussion for 2 v 3 blades on 200hp engines.

The three blade TopProp is available today, and works really well. Gets off the ground and goes really fast by Mooney standards.

That's real numbers, by real Mooney pilots.

I would be waiting for the facts to be revealed...

That's just my nonprofessional opinion.

You can always buy a plane and upgrade it over time. There are not many available that have been finished the way you like (generally speaking)

Have you considered buying one new from the factory?

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Mike,

That tells me that there is probably a significant financial difference between me and the Acclaim driver....

But, the optimum characteristics of speeding through the flight levels are different from the characteristics of flying in the sub O2 levels.

In other words, the four blades being driven by a TN in thin air sounds good, a lot better than three blades on a C.

Doc,

Does your mission include flying long distances in the flight levels? Or are you more of the short hop, non-O2 kind of guy?

Scott from Kansas has some good experience with his two blade MT.

That's a tough choice to have to make.

Best regards,

-a-

[orionflt]

I have dealt with several MT props on different airframes and my personal opinion is to stay away from them. They are composite covered wood props that seem to be noisier and not as durable. This obviously is my opinion and there are others out there who probably love them, but after scrapping one completely and seeing another require $7K to have a blade repaired I am not a fan.

[aviatoreb]

I owned a Diamond DA40 before this Mooney and I was active on the Diamond forum.  There was an MT 3-blade prop OEM option for the DA40, but I had the metal Hartzel two-blade top-prop.  From watching a couple of years worth of steady problems the MT people were having, from delaminating, to small dings causing cracks in the carbon, to spontaneous prop governor problems, and poor and slow service from MT which sometimes grounded the planes for months, MT just seemed to be a nonstop headache for those folks, several of which eventually switched to a top prop.

[DOC]

Once again I have to thank everyone responding.  I appreciate your knowledge.  Knowledge I just don't have.  I will stick with the known quality of the 3 blade Hartzell. 

 

Joe

[Fritz Kaiser]

Hello all,

please check this site

www.ovation-gmbh.com

I talked to the owner and he said:

Absolute no vibration ( turbine like smooth engine running )

better take off performance

2-5 kt better TAS in cruise

More " propeller brake " at ilde speed

I don't know if he is right !

But the Ovation looks cool

I'm Not a sales rep. from MT prop

If you want more Info write to the owner!

Greetings

Fritz

[Shadrach]

Hello all,

please check this site

www.ovation-gmbh.com

I talked to the owner and he said:

Absolute no vibration ( turbine like smooth engine running )

better take off performance

2-5 kt better TAS in cruise

More " propeller brake " at ilde speed

I don't know if he is right !

But the Ovation looks cool

I'm Not a sales rep. from MT prop

If you want more Info write to the owner!

Greetings

Fritz

Wow! Is that the normal rental rate in Germany for a 4 place HiPo retract?  $410hr wet USD with a minimum of 20hrs block time at a time...or $8200 for 20hrs... or 2 dollars per statute mile.  At 70hrs a year my miserly 4cyl runs about $135 an hour all in. Non-operating costs are split 3 ways, so my cost this year was a bit over $100hr to fly 35hrs (not much time for the plane this year). I could afford to fly occasionally at those rates, but my internal accountant would ruin the fun by constantly reminding me of my stupidity, so I'd likely end up in gliders.. 

[Awful_Charlie]

Wow! Is that the normal rental rate in Germany for a 4 place HiPo retract?  $410hr wet USD with a minimum of 20hrs block time at a time...or $8200 for 20hrs... or 2 dollars per statute mile.  At 70hrs a year my miserly 4cyl runs about $135 an hour all in. Non-operating costs are split 3 ways, so my cost this year was a bit over $100hr to fly 35hrs (not much time for the plane this year). I could afford to fly occasionally at those rates, but my internal accountant would ruin the fun by constantly reminding me of my stupidity, so I'd likely end up in gliders.. 

 

Shuddering isn't it!   If I look at just the annual fixed costs in France (all in EUR):

Mandatory 3rd party insurance: 1100

Hangar: 1400

Hull insurance: 1400

Jepp: 1500

Annual: 2000 +/- depending on defects

Trust for US ownership: 400

Time life components (oxy cylinder, batteries for ELT, Garmins, Aspen, Lifesaver, ):  say 300 - possibly a bit low if you consider hoses etc too

that's 8100 per year before adding any flying costs, or just over 11k in USD   I think I need to find a partner to share with!

 

Back to the topic, I'm interested in the MT 4 blader, mainly for the reduced nose and the lower weight at the front, the other benefits pointed out by Fritz would be a bonus. However, I'm quite concerned about the issues noted by Erik, and also about getting the lower cowl off & on.

 

Ben

[FlyWalt]

Well I have a new MT prop on our 231. And we are very happy with the performance and lack of vibration. However, I am at 25 hours on it and have already found small dings in the paint. 

[aviatoreb]

Shuddering isn't it!   If I look at just the annual fixed costs in France (all in EUR):

Mandatory 3rd party insurance: 1100

Hangar: 1400

Hull insurance: 1400

Jepp: 1500

Annual: 2000 +/- depending on defects

Trust for US ownership: 400

Time life components (oxy cylinder, batteries for ELT, Garmins, Aspen, Lifesaver, ):  say 300 - possibly a bit low if you consider hoses etc too

that's 8100 per year before adding any flying costs, or just over 11k in USD   I think I need to find a partner to share with!

 

Back to the topic, I'm interested in the MT 4 blader, mainly for the reduced nose and the lower weight at the front, the other benefits pointed out by Fritz would be a bonus. However, I'm quite concerned about the issues noted by Erik, and also about getting the lower cowl off & on.

 

Ben

 

Well - to be fair - it was a specific model of MT prop that many folks were having problem with on the DA40, so it could be that it is not a problem with other MT props?  And I have not owned a DA40 for 3 years, so it could be that I am recalling the problems form 4 and 5 years ago and could it be fixed?  And also, for you Euro - guys, the deal that was grounding airplanes was packing that three blade in a box and shipping it to Europe, so if you are already in Europe....

 

Still - given all the several people I saw complaining and even switching to Hartzel metal two blades, I would personally take a wait and see position if it were my own airplane.  Actually - if it WERE available for a Mooney Rocket I would still be interested since more performance is always nice, but it is not available, and as I said, I would personally be suspicious.  Who knows - maybe this particular prop is super?

 

One thing would be nice besides performance and noise: Mooney big bore continentals are nose heavy (and the Bravo too), so lightening up the nose could only be kind on the front landing gear.

[EDNR-Cruiser]

Shuddering isn't it!   If I look at just the annual fixed costs in France (all in EUR):

Mandatory 3rd party insurance: 1100

Hangar: 1400

Hull insurance: 1400

Jepp: 1500

Annual: 2000 +/- depending on defects

Trust for US ownership: 400

Time life components (oxy cylinder, batteries for ELT, Garmins, Aspen, Lifesaver, ):  say 300 - possibly a bit low if you consider hoses etc too

that's 8100 per year before adding any flying costs, or just over 11k in USD   I think I need to find a partner to share with!

I'd say the prices above are more on the cheap side, especially hangar cost which is more often in the vicinity of $3000 and above as long as your M20 is not based on an old forgotten grass field. Hull insurance is about 1,9% of the value of the aircraft and you always have to add 19-22% VAT and other taxes...

Now add about $10 per gallon of 100LL AVGAS and you know why you have to be a true enthusiast if you want to afford flying in Europe... (or very wealthy...)

The latter is one of the reasons why I enjoy the efficiency of my Mooney even more than its speed!