Mooney ... Sold to the Chinese?

[rocketman]

Personally I am ready for any company, American, Chinese, or whoever to take over Mooney and make it Happen! They are obviously committing resources, human capital, money, political muscle, and eventually advertising and selling to the American and international aviation community that they mean to produce a real and prosperous flying machine with the type certificate of Mooney Aircraft. For now, thats good enough for me. They have to deal with the FAA, NTSB, lawyers, and everyone else that regulates quality issues, and that probably means that they will NOT be taking the company offshore to China. 

 

I was expecting this and I really believe that it probably will be good for  current and future Mooney owners. The parts and products they produce should be as good if not better as the previous multinational owners of Mooney in the past!

 

Lets give them a chance..

[1964-M20E]

Well we just might be able to go to Harbor Freight or Wall mart and pickup parts and or complete planes soon. 

 

I hope it turns out to be a good thing.

[ghovey]

Well, I read through all the comments on this topic and I am glad we all got that out of our system. I applaud anyone willing to take a risk in an industry with great challenges. Will they succeed? Possibly with the support of their customers, their dealers, their service centers and their ability to come into the market with products that are well designed, well built and affordable. The same formula that has eluded every small airplane company for the past thirty years. So it is a very big challenge and I wish them success. And yes we will all be there to cal BS if they don't succeed. But in the meantime there are new owners and they have my support.

Now, can we please upgrade old G1000's to WAAS?

[AlanA]

Having paid outrageous prices for Mooney parts I am hoping that a larger supply of parts may bring some of the prices down. Knowing that parts will still be available is the big positive here.

[Chimpanzee]

My two cents are with 231flyer. Could be that as a German I remember what happened to Zuendapp when the Chinese bought it. While it would be nice to get affordable spare parts (Mc Farlane beats Mooney by 75 USD to 425 USD for the same control cable), I am afraid that Mooneys will just join the ranks of other orphan aircraft.
However, after looking at the list provided by 231 flyer, I will need an extra beer tonight. That does not bode well for the future of US manufacturing.

Cheers
 

[DaV8or]

Having paid outrageous prices for Mooney parts I am hoping that a larger supply of parts may bring some of the prices down. Knowing that parts will still be available is the big positive here.

 

Why would there be a larger supply of parts? The factory now has whatever you need and big, Mooney made items like flaps, rudders, etc, are made to order. Nobody in industry builds a big supply of parts and hopes to sell them someday anymore. It's supposed to be just in time inventory. Production will try to equal demand. I don't see the Chinese changing this policy. The only thing that would bring the price down is moving production to China with super low labor costs. If this happens, I for one will not be buying these parts.

 

It's one thing to say, "Look at the iPad, it's made in China", but it is a whole other animal when you have a Chinese company making things in China. That is the case here. A Chinese company bought Mooney to use the name, legacy and history to cover up the fact that they will be a new Chinese aircraft company. They have learned that you can't sell to Americans by calling your new company Lucky Golden Dragon Aircraft Co.

 

The Mooney Worldwide website says it all. Notice there are no links there to customer support, or any mention of supporting the legacy aircraft, or barely even acknowledging the existence of the planes we fly. It's all about the future, not the past. They pasted Al Mooney up there to instantly create a history and legacy for their new company. It's a white wash.

 

In the short term, we will continue to have parts, but don't expect any price reductions. In the long term, I fear we will be even worse off than ever.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'm really excited for the amphibious Mooney that Mooney Worldwide is promising.

:-p

[231flyer]

Every business has to ultimately earn its keep.  The Mooney parts business is inherently profitable given the installed base of 7-8000 active aircraft.  Since 2009 the parts business has been used to additionally sustain the type certificate, manufacturing facilities, and other corporate obligations (tax, regulatory filings, insurance, etc.).  Clearly once these extraneous encumbrances are removed the parts business can stand on its own.  Since parts demand is relatively inelastic, don't expect any price concessions.

 

Boeing Commercial makes most of its profits on the parts and MRO business, their new planes sell at an economic loss (before accounting trickery).  Its the razor and blade model for most airframe manufacturers.  I am quite confident the Mooney parts business will remain viable but probably end up outsourced to someone like Aviall (incidentally owned by Boeing).  Piper outsourced their parts business to Aviall the last time they went into bankruptcy.  I doubt lead times change much although Aviall does a fantastic job for my Malibu Mirage.  I can pop down to their distribution center 10 minutes from my house and pickup any part. They run a professional parts business unlike the shoe-string business at Mooney.  

[RJBrown]

Mooney elevators?  last spring the answer was not in stock cant find the tooling. No estimated fill date. Bought used, took three deliveries to get one good elevator. If you are AOG for an elevator they made it sound like" good luck, you're grounded!"

[Bennett]

From FLYING newsletter...    Not a done deal yet, apparently.

Is Mooney Back? Maybe, or Maybe Not

By Stephen Pope / Published: Oct 10, 2013

Related Tags: Pistons, News, Aircraft, Mooney

 

 

Enlarge Photo

 

Mooney may soon be sold to Chinese investors. Then again, maybe not. The Kerrville, Texas, company says it can neither confirm nor deny a report that a sale to a Chinese real estate investment group is imminent.

 

China Radio International yesterday reported that Meijing Group of China has entered negotiations with Mooney and is expected to complete a purchase of the company next month. 

 

Mooney Chief Financial Officer Barry Hodkin toldFlying he couldn't comment on the report. Hodkin was earlier quoted as saying news of a Chinese buyout was "premature." He backed away from that language when he spoke with us, saying instead that he couldn't speak "for legal reasons."

 

Mooney shut down operations and laid off most of its workers in 2008, nearly 80 years after the light plane manufacturer was founded by Albert and Arthur Mooney in Wichita, Kansas. 

 

The company today isn't producing any airplanes but has been supporting customers. In July at EAA AirVenture in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, Hodkin said Mooney was seeking a funding partner and hoped to resume aircraft production soon.

[Bennett]

Yes, China produces some really crappy "stuff", but they also have a decent space program, nuclear bombs, ICBMs, and their auto manufacturing business is growing by leaps and bounds. Look at how fast Korea built an effective automobile manufacturing presence. Hyundai and Kia were once pretty junky vehicles, and now they are viable competitors for Japanese and the US automobiles.  From what I read (and see on my trips there) China is following the Korea model in their auto industry.  China has prospered on low cost labor, but that is changing rapidly. Wages are rising in China, and while still well below the US, some manufacturing is leaving China and going to Indonesia, Malaysia, and even Tanzania. The capability is there, but there is a good deal of corruption in and out of the government, and the legal system is pretty bad by our standards. Not a political discussion, but I want to point out that China is not the backwards, shoddy, State that some people think it is.  They can build good "stuff". I've ridden their newest subways and railroads, and been in and out of many new airports that can rival the best in the West. I have American friends who live in China who are there to supervise manufacturing QA for American companies, and they tell me that quality can be maintained when there are proper checks and balances, and where inspections are done with regularity. Certainly Boeing and others can do this well, and in time, I expect that worldwide competition, and a rising middle class will force a filtering down of quality to smaller manufacturers. It may take a few more years, but personally, I think a capital infusion to Mooney from a Chinese company will be a good thing, or at least better than letting Mooney collapse entirely.  We may never see a new Mooney M20 series aircraft, but from my talks with Jerry Chen (if he is part of the new group), a new, different, hopefully more modern Mooney or set of Mooneys will emerge.  

[Bennett]

I agree that a Real Estate company as purchaser is a bit strange, but what else do they do? Hyundai, of Korea, is a heavy equipment manufacturer, and ship builder.  Their auto business was insignificant until American interests stated marketing their vehicles, and bringing in American design features, and the push for quality, backed by long warranty periods.   I hope that American know how in engineering and marketing will be a part of the "new" Mooney.  We shall see. 

[231flyer]

Chinese aerospace companies are looking for technology (AVIC aquisition of Cirrus(composites/drones) and Continental (diesel engines/material science)) or a ready customer base. Mooney offers neither, the technology originated in the 60s, and Mooney was selling less than 10 frames a year when they ceased manufacturing in 2008.  Lets face it, Mooney had been part of the walking dead long before it ceased operations. Btw the Chinese did not emerge as buyers for Eclipse Aerospace and their $1.3B stir-welded twin jet when they went under in 2008.

 

Mooney has brand value and a small parts business (< $10M/yr).  Meijin is buying Mooney for the brand, they will put up with the parts business as long as it is self sustaining.

 

I just don't see them investing the hundreds of millions required to develop a new airframe.  Piper halted development of the Piperjet after spending $110M, Eclipse spent $1.3B and built 262 jets before folding, Diamondjet is looking for $150M to continue development after spending $100M .  Beachcraft just halted production of their entire line of jets and are looking for a buyer.  The airframe business is scattered with skeletons because the demand does not exist. GA is in decline

[Piloto]

Free chopsticks with every Mooney purchase. Wonder what the new logo would look like.

 

José

[KSMooniac]

I believe I read somewhere a while back that part of the dynamic in play with China is to find ways to create jobs for their growing middle class, and that is partially why we see different provinces and/or companies buying up American companies, even if there is no obvious "fit" at first glance.  They're flush with our money, but need to parlay that into something to keep their population employed and improving, otherwise they'll eventually have a billion angry people without a future of opportunity!  I know nothing of the prospective purchasers if the news is true, except that they don't appear affiliated with previous purchasers of American aviation interests and I would assume they are even in a different region.  (I'm too lazy to look them up.    )  

 

All that aside, I fail to see how this could be any worse than the status quo for Mooney.  I hope it isn't a rape-and-pillage ploy that will result in the uprooting of Mooney and relocation overseas.  I doubt that is in the plans.  Even if it wear, though, it realistically isn't a lot different than Mooney failing to stay afloat as they are today.  If they decide there is a future and want to invest in a modernization effort, then that is much, much better than what we have today.  I might even be interested in helping with such a venture too, so long as the checks cash.  

[fantom]

 

<<<... I fail to see how this could be any worse than the status quo for Mooney......If they decide there is a future and want to invest in a modernization effort, then that is much, much better than what we have today. .>>>

 

Agree completely.

 

The Chinese can't be any worse than the carpet bagger Dopps, and the other misguided owners like the French have been for Mooney and the good folks in Kerrville.

[PTK]

I see nothing wrong with Mooney getting the infusion of cash it needs to restart production in Kerville.

I haven't seen anywhere that actual production would be moved out of Kerville.

Therefore I'm still optimistic for the good folks in Kerville.

[sreid]

 

 

<<<... I fail to see how this could be any worse than the status quo for Mooney......If they decide there is a future and want to invest in a modernization effort, then that is much, much better than what we have today. .>>>

 

Agree completely.

 

The Chinese can't be any worse than the carpet bagger Dopps, and the other misguided owners like the French have been for Mooney and the good folks in Kerrville.

 

 

Really? Is the Mooney Worldwide website the site of the supposed new owners? If so, I think we're screwed. That website is a joke; there is nothing there relevant to supporting how we operate our airplanes or producing anything useful to us.

[DaV8or]

I think a capital infusion to Mooney from a Chinese company will be a good thing, or at least better than letting Mooney collapse entirely.  We may never see a new Mooney M20 series aircraft, but from my talks with Jerry Chen (if he is part of the new group), a new, different, hopefully more modern Mooney or set of Mooneys will emerge.  

 

Then what's the point of buying Mooney? Most everyone here seems to think the parts business is not viable. They're not getting any super high tech, nice machinery, or facilities in a location they want. They're not getting some great Rutan like engineering and design team, they're not even getting some great unfinished project, like the Mooney 301, or some Mooney Jet. They're buying the rights to paste Al Mooney, his history and his accomplishments on their own product. It's cheesy. I'd rather buy the Pipestrel Pantera than anything the Chinese come up with that has Al Mooney's name on it.

[Dale]

I was at a Mooney Service center yesterday and was speaking with their chief of operations when talk came around about the sale of Mooney. He seemed to be pleased that Mooney would be acquired. The feeling has been that the company is going nowhere without the investment. Apparently, there was a memo going around at the MSC about the sale. He indicated that the company purchasing Mooney had already purchased one of the aircraft engine companies, and that the main production would remain in the U.S. Has anyone heard that the company buying Mooney has already acquired an aircraft engine company here in the U.S.?

[Jeff_S]

As I predicted in a previous post, there is more (or less) to this story than has currently been reported.  I suggest people need to quit pontificating and just wait to see what the real story is.

[fantom]

As I predicted in a previous post, there is more (or less) to this story than has currently been reported. I suggest people need to quit pontificating and just wait to see what the real story is.

Not a chance Jeff. There is more (or less) to every story that has ever been written. The sage insights and wit that folks offer here is entertaining and fun. Enjoy

[KSMooniac]

Trey Hughes just mentioned via email that an official announcement is coming soon, so I guess we'll know before too much longer...

[aviatoreb]

I have a PhD student in mathematics I am advising who is Chineese.  He is a really nice kid, and a very hard worker, and definitely bright. His screen saver is all things star trek and he is the stereotypical tech-nerd grad student kid who could have walked right off the set of the tv show big bang theory.  He loves cars, especially Japaneese pocket rocket cars.  He also loves airplanes, so of course when I figured that out - I took him flying about a year ago.  And I let him handle the controls in cruise flight.  When I looked over expecting to see his usual big grin, instead I saw he was smiling and crying tears rolling down his face. He was so overwhelmed with emotion when actually handling the controls of an airplane.

 

I know he hopes to buy one some day.

 

So....today he was really excited and proud when he informed that he learned that a Chineese company had purchased Mooney.  Apparently it was somewhere in the general media in Chineese language that he reads online.

[DaV8or]

As I predicted in a previous post, there is more (or less) to this story than has currently been reported.  I suggest people need to quit pontificating and just wait to see what the real story is.

 

What's the point of an internet forum then?