Newbie to Forum - Cherokee owner - leaning to Rocket Purchase

[Martin H]

Hello all,

 

   Presently, I am a deployed soldier in Afghanistan, and looking to upgrade to a FAST, effecient, long-legged, IFR platform for 2-3 real adults and bags, from my Cherokee 180 with a STOL kit.

 

   My fiance' is back in the states and gave me permission to shop and if we find the right plane, buy it.

 

   I would like more info on the Rocket, on Mooney Ownership, on someone who is the most persnickity PPInspector, and Rocket Flying.

 

   Background and Mission for me:

 

   - 650 hour IFR, SEL, SES pilot

 

   - Approx 45 hours in retracts - T-34, Bonanza 35, and Arrow.

 

   - Mission for work from Ft. Polk - 2-3 times a month - me plus 1-2 soldiers and bags on trips about 650 miles one way.

 

   - Personal Mission - 2 weekends a month - flying me (or plus 1) 500 miles from Polk to South Atlanta and back.

 

 

   My leave and long weekends go visiting friends and relatives - PA, TN, GA, IL

 

   My insurance CO has given me pre-approval for a policy that I can afford.  

 

  

   Thank you,

 

   Martin

 

 

 

 

  

[RocketAviator]

Martin,

First and foremost thank you for your service to our country!  I am a relatively new Rocket owner, purchased mine in April of last year and now a little over 50 hours, however mine has been in shops for over 5 of those months for new G500, GTN & other avionics upgrades and lastly for an incident of my own doings which has turned out to be very expensive and a long time to resolve.  I hope to get my ol bucket of bolts back next week.

 

For my mission I settled on the Rocket, most of my flying is cross country 500 miles plus and is usually just myself and my wife.  I absolutely love the speed but not the load capacity of the Rocket as I also had and just sold my Turbo Saratoga which I flew for about 800 hrs through the years, a great bird with 6 adults capacity but very slow compared to the Rocket.  Now the Rocket is maybe a 3 regular.... full adults, full fuel (even with the standard tanks).... NOTE it may be over Max Gross even at that!!!  Sadly the fuel efficiency that I see from the other Mooniacs is not what I get in the Rocket.  I guess I could slow down but then what is the point.... 

 

Let me know what you end up with I would be very interested to know.  There are a fair amount of Rocket owners on Mooneyspace and all that I have communicated with have been very helpful and encouraging.... well so has ALMOST... all of the others on Mooneyspace as well!

 

Good luck,

Fly safe..

Rocket On>>>> cause there won't be many that can catch you or even stay up with you!

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I don't know much about Rockets, but I know that three soldiers with bags would be a stretch for my Acclaim, based on some of the monster backpacks I've seen them carrying at commercial airports.

 

Otherwise a Mooney is perfect for your mission. If you find a good one and take care of it, you'll love owning a Mooney.

 

Thank you for your service! Where are you based in Afghanistan? My wife grew up in Kabul but her family fled when the Soviets invaded in 1979.

[Martin H]

Thanks guys!   WOW!   an Acclaim owner and a Rocketman!

 

I am presently in Kabul.   Interesting city - in all ways possible.

 

Regarding 3 soldiers and bags - LOL - I did NOT mean rucks and duffle bags - although, that MIGHT (though rarely) be a thought.

 

If either of you are interested in the history - your wife may enjoy it also - you may want ot read - into the land of bones - comparing Alexander with the Brits, the Soviets and ISAF.

 

   Please send info as to how I can read and learn more about the Rocket ownership, and transitioning to Mooneys and Rockets from Cherokees.

 

   Martin

[gjkirsch]

Martin

 

You have opend the wound!  We all think we bought the perfect Mooney!.  Of course, only the Bravo owners would be correct

A lot of Mooneys will meet your requirments as long as the pilot and passangers were not too heavy.  Think about what you want from an equipment and icing protection standpoint and go for it.  The Bravo, Eagle, Ovation, and Acclaim are the long bodies.  They have the most interior room.  The rocket, 231, and 252 all share the same "next size down" airframe.  I don't think maintenance costs between the models is significant (All performance airplanes are significant!)  Fuel burn will typically run from 12 to 20 gallons per hour depending on LOP or ROP and how hard you run it wilth TAS from 160 to 215 knots

 

Good luck, be safe and welcome home!

 

Gordon

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I'll definitely recommend "Into the Land of Bones" to my wife. She's read "The Great Game" and a couple other history books for that region, and her family are descendants of Alexander the Great. Her maiden name is Sekander and her son's name is Alexander.

[mike_elliott]

Welcome! If you don't mind going a bit slower, an F model can fit your mission very well, and give you more time to count all the $$$ you will have saved over a Bravo, Rocket, 252 etc. My F has 1060 Useful, holds 64 Gal of fuel 145 TAS on 8.6 GPH LOP.

 

A similar J would cost about 15-20K more, but get you about 10 more kts at the same fuel burn.

[Bob_Belville]

Martin, I consider my E, the shortest Mooney model, a great 2 person, occasional 3 person, plane. (We're headed to the Atlantic Beach next Friday with 4 adults but that's a 1:30-1:45 trip.)

 

With full fuel the remaining useful load is 600# which is probably similar to the mid size Mooneys which have a higher gross but also carry more fuel. My E cruises @ 155 K on about 10 gph. An F or a J would be similar operating cost with more leg room and, on average, a little higher acquisition price.

 

Bottom line, with your flying mostly in the East a turbo K or bigger would cost more to operate and for most of your flights would not have much advantage over the E/F/J models. 

[mooneygirl]

Well we have an Ovation and an E, so I think we have beat you all. HAHAH. Just kidding.  Buy a Mooney, and welcome to the [crazy] Mooney family!

[David Mazer]

I have to echo some of the other comments.  The Rocket is a great 1-2 person airplane that will go longer than you can and very fast while carrying plenty of bags.  When you get to 3 people, you can still take either luggage or fuel but 3 hours of fuel is still about a 500 mile range.  It is a management issue but the ability to carry fuel or people gives you choices.  The Rocket should be cheaper than the Acclaim and faster than the Bravo.  The 231/252/Ovation, Bravo and Acclaim can have FIKKI while the Rocket can only have inadvertent icing protection.  I think the general conesensus is that maintenence cost is about the same on the turbos but availability of parts on the 80s planes can be tough.  Pre-80s you can swap equipment to something as good or better.  Post-80s planes have part availability that may be a little better.

 

Lots of choices but that is a good thing.

 

Thanks for your service.

[aaronk25]

Got a question guys I understand the test pilot aspect but on a acclaim/bravo/rocket what really us the limiting gross factor? Is it the gear or spar or what is the reason they can't haul more? What would happen if you put 4 guys and a load of bags and gas in it????? After all its not a 200hp aircraft?

[gjkirsch]

My understanding of the weight limit is the lack of ability of the landing gear to pass a drop test and the 61 knot maximum landing speed that increases with weight.  The long body planes have been significantly loaded over gross for ferry flights.  However, that was done with FAA approval and I am assuming factory knowledge behind it. 

[Bob_Belville]

Aren't large planes certified with a different landing weight from their T.O. weight? I suppose some of YOU people have used that to rationalize taking off a little over gross knowing that fuel burn will get you under by the time you land. I have never done that and I will not do it again.  

[David Mazer]

"I have never done that and I will not do it again."  How can you not do something again that you haven't ever done?

 

The max weight on the Rocket is limited by the gear and the Acclaim has a higher gross because it was beefed up.  I'm not sure of the Bravo.  You can takeoff at a higher weight than you can land (legally but I don't remember the takeoff weight) but you're taking the risk you won't have to land before you burn of the required fuel (or chuck out some unlucky bag).

[triple8s]

On my bird the POH says you have to burn off 168lbs or lose 168lbs before landing if take off is made at gross weight.

[Bob_Belville]

On my bird the POH says you have to burn off 168lbs or lose 168lbs before landing if take off is made at gross weight.

Model?

[FlyDave]

One thing I've heard about the rocket is that the heater isn't that good. Can you rocket owners comment on that?

[aviatoreb]

My heater is fabulous.  It just pumps out very warm air.  I have flown in as low as -5F on the ground - colder at altitude, and I can say the heater is super.  I heard that there was some adjustment early on to fix what was initially a bad heater.

 

I generally avoid flying when it is below 0F since it is very cold prepping the airplane on the tarmac, but that is not a hard rule.  It can get cold here in "way upstate NY", as cold as -30F to -35F in the early AM on the coldest of cold snaps.  I have delayed departures to allow the sun to warm things up a bit on the taramac, and I have also postponed trips for considerations that an off field landing would be very inhospitable at -20/-30F.  I do XC ski still down to -10F....after that its the gym for me.

[aviatoreb]

Hello all,

 

   Presently, I am a deployed soldier in Afghanistan, and looking to upgrade to a FAST, effecient, long-legged, IFR platform for 2-3 real adults and bags, from my Cherokee 180 with a STOL kit.

 

   My fiance' is back in the states and gave me permission to shop and if we find the right plane, buy it.

 

   I would like more info on the Rocket, on Mooney Ownership, on someone who is the most persnickity PPInspector, and Rocket Flying.

 

   Background and Mission for me:

 

   - 650 hour IFR, SEL, SES pilot

 

   - Approx 45 hours in retracts - T-34, Bonanza 35, and Arrow.

 

   - Mission for work from Ft. Polk - 2-3 times a month - me plus 1-2 soldiers and bags on trips about 650 miles one way.

 

   - Personal Mission - 2 weekends a month - flying me (or plus 1) 500 miles from Polk to South Atlanta and back.

 

 

   My leave and long weekends go visiting friends and relatives - PA, TN, GA, IL

 

   My insurance CO has given me pre-approval for a policy that I can afford.  

 

  

   Thank you,

 

   Martin

 

Martin, a rocket is a hot rod.  I love it for that.  Its fast, and climbs like nuts.

 

The speed reports here are correct.  It is true it is not as efficient as other mooneys, but it can be dialed back.  I have a go-slow mode which I enjoy that is ~13gph LOP at 175TAS.  But yes I can pour a lot of fuel through that engine too - and it goes 200-225TAS depending on altitude on 21-22gph.  I go fast when I am in a hurry, or just in the mood, and I go slow if I am not - or if I am trying to push the range.

 

I have 900lbs useful load.  Divide that between your bags and persons and fuel and range, and desired speed/burn.  I have heard it said that it will lift whatever you can close the door on, and I believe it since it is hard to imagine that 1200-1500fpm after a short high accelerating ground roll at gross turns into no climb at 1lb over. But I fly no more than legal gross, very carefully.  I have read that it is the landing gear that was the limiting factor to raising the legal gross beyond what it is today, and that is already greater than the original M20K weights.

 

Its a hot rod.  So beyond financially optimally airframe choice for my mission needs, which might not lead me to a rocket, I just enjoy having one wicked hot rod.  I think that is ok.

[David Mazer]

I have flown my Rocket at -40F at 15,000 ft in shirt sleeves very comfortably.  I can't imagine what a good heater would be if that is bad.

[rocketman]

I have had a Rocket for about two years now. Its not like any other Mooney - its fast, powerful, and needs constant pilot monitoring. It reminds me of a NASCAR (though I have never driven one before). If you like speed and the rights to brag about it, you need a Rocket.

 

As far as its take off and climb capabilities, I was demonstrated by a sales person for Rocket many years ago during a Mooney homecoming convention in Kerrville that whatever you put into it, it will fly - and land. And indeed it did! 

 

It is a great dependable plane but takes a bit of a learning curve with lots of previous Mooney time to accommodate to its speed. Moving up from a Cherokee 180 will take some time and effort - with a good knowledgable flight instructor. 

[triple8s]

Model?

 

96 Ovation   Max Gross Take Off Weight - 3368

                    Max Gross Landing Weight  - 3200