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I am guessing you all know where this is headed...... My plan was to replace the KT76a with a Stratus ESGi since I didn't have any WAAS position source installed. Between the Superbowl Traffic/TFR's and the wonderful winter weather in Minnesota I scheduled the upgrade for the first week of February. The plan was to remove the KLN89b and install the new Stratus in it's place. I also figured it was a good time to remove the ADF. That would leave the center stack free for a future upgrades. What I didn't realize was how much work was required just to pull the those three radios and run new Coax for the WAAS antenna sorry for the upside down image, no matter what I did the the photo MooneySpace rotated it upside down (note to admin, please fix or add rotate controls) Rather than pay to put the panel back together now and redo it again in a year I bit the bullet and replaced almost everything. Avidyne AMX-240 Audio panel, IFD-550 and IFD-440 navigators, and the Stratus ESGi ADSB transponder. Good measure I installed a used Insight engine monitor too. In a major case of "while your in there" I also had the attitude gryo overhauled and the vacuum hoses replaced, carpets were ordered from SCS Interiors, and I ordered the DIY interior repair kit from Bruce Jaeger to spruce up the interior plastics. I may be broke now, but it is an amazing transformation. I can't wait to fly to SUN-N-FUN and actually file /G. I didn't realize how bad the old KX-170b's were getting until I was able to pickup up ATIS 60+ miles out.

Its not a fair question for me , as I am an A@P and do my own maintenance and decide on what to defer , The Bonanza is a lot easier to work on , with lots of room and a cowl that opens like a cars hood....... All things considered I think they are comparable , with the exception of the overhaul cost , The Bo engine is 25% more at overhaul , They say cylinders last longer in the Lyc. but I haven't seen it , because I usually run at 60 to 65% in either.... As far as holding value , its all about condition..... Its better to buy more plane and grow into it , than buy less and then have to upgrade in 5 years...... Look at your mission , Mission decides airframe , not the other way around...... The fact that I did not get crucified on this thread , probably means I am on point in my descriptions....... And I do enjoy my Mooney....... I just enjoy my Beech more......

Well, It's been quite a while since I've posted on this subject but thought this weeks progress might be interesting for some of you that have been interested in the project. All the body work is done and now it's getting some color. A lot of the prep work for the interior has been completed during the last 6 weeks as well. I have a very unique paint scheme that Cris at Scheme Designers "NAILED" and Brad (Airframes, Inc) and his painter are very excited about. Something different than the typical airplane paint scheme. I will elaborate later as that takes shape on the airplane, but for now we're at least getting some colors. Tom

This has got to be the stupidest question ever asked on this site. You get on the Mooney site asking which airplane to buy. Duh.

Bringing back an oldie, but wanted to follow-up and close the loop as I FINALLY got it fixed after 8 months of not having a functional AP. I wasn't in a huge hurry, because I enjoy flying it and the ~180 hours or so of hand flying in that time period has probably been good for me. But, I'm getting ready for my IFR checkride and wanted to have it functional and get some experience with it, in case I really need it some day. After months of trying to get the local avionics shop at my field to troubleshoot it in earnest as well as trying to even get a return call/email from a shop at Centennial where I travel frequently, I finally threw in the towel. I called Century directly on Tuesday and asked if I could just bring the plane to them and get it fixed. They said come on down. I went to Mineral Wells Wed evening and they pulled it into their hangar first thing Thurs while I hung out in their lounge with another gentleman who did the same thing. They spent a few minutes troubleshooting, then pulled the AI and walked it across the street to the factory. A couple hours later, it came back, rebuilt and with a clean bill of health. One of their techs went up with me, calibrated it in the air, then gave me a tutorial on how to use all the functions, followed by programming up and letting the plane fly a full RNAV/LPV approach down to minimums (practice approach) and it worked flawlessly. Left Mineral Wells and was back home in Abq on Thurs night. In my 10 short months of airplane ownership, I seem to have had a pretty constant string of maintenance/repair experiences that were, let's say, 'meh'. Mostly over-promise and under-deliver with a few that just flat out lie to get you off the phone with no intention of actually following through on their promises. This experience, however, was as good as it gets! Truly great people at Century (Matt, the service manager, especially) and the super friendly folks at the FBO, etc. Wish I had done it sooner and for anyone in a similar situation (unable to get qualified local help to fix it), I'd highly recommend this option. Cheers! Vance

This is the only thing I have to disagree with in Alan’s comparison. If you are tall the Mooney wins in front seat comfort. I love Bonanzas but at 6’3” I don’t fit well in the front. In the Mooney I can slide the seat back in cruise and fully stretch out my legs without touching the pedals. Alan looked comfortable enough in @201er‘s video heading to the Summit . What ever you end up with, get a CO monitor! cheers, Dan

I own both , The Mooney is a good plane for economy , As far as a sports car , I have never heard of an Aerobatic Mooney , There are quite a few Aerobatic Bonanzas..... You be the judge.....The V-35 can have a CG Issue , when reaching 1/4 tanks , as fuel burns , the CG moves rearwards The useful load on most Bonanzas is about 1200 UL , most J Mooneys 950 , Personally , I do not like running either at MGTOW , The Bonanza is a true 4 place aircraft , The Mooney is not .... The V tail Beeches post 64 run about 175 KTAS at 7500 ft , The J Mooneys are about 155 KTAS at 7500 feet .... On trips shorter than 200 NM 20 kts is not a big deal , On 500 Nm trips the extra 20 kts is huge.... The Beech will burn about 15 GPH on the rich side , The M20J will run about 10 on the rich side ... The Beech carries 80 gallons standard , the Mooney J I believe is 62 , Both can get extended fuel , The Beech fuel system is superior in that it uses bladders , they are cheap to service , and generally last about 40 years .... You will NOT get that type of service from wet wings , The Beech is MUCH more comfortable in the front seats , and a Zillion times better for the rear seat passengers , It also has about twice the baggage space.... The landing gear retract systems are similar , electro mechanical , but the gear on the Mooney is expensive to maintain , as the pucks must be replaced every 10 to 15 years at 2000 dollars average , The Beech uses Oleo struts , which are superior not only in function , but as well as a maintenance......You will hear people say that Beech parts are expensive , The one positive is that the Beech is built better than every other GA aircraft and you are not using parts to the degree of most other aircraft , On a positive note , Mooney comes in a not so distant 2nd as far as quality build , So parts for the most part are not a big issue..... People try to compare these aircraft Apples to Apples , They are not so similar , YOU have to decide what your mission is , mission determines the airplane .... The budget at 130 will allow you to get a lot of airplane , I recommend you fly both for a 200 NM trip , and decide which is for you....... I will venture to say though , if economy is first on your list , I would gravitate towards the Mooney , economy should not be first on your list..... And fair warning , If you bring your wife shopping , she will make you buy the Bonanza , Also the Bonanza , is a much easier plane to operate and land , also a lot more responsive on the controls..... And at 550 lbs heavier (stock) you can stc it to 900 lbs heavier , It is a much more stable aircraft....

Or get a TBM and have a 3rd and 4th [emoji2]

That'll buff out.

A bit?! Alan uses two seat pillows so he can see over the glareshield and double rudder pedal extensions so he can reach the pedals!

Glad you've found help and good people. I have probably seen your posts, but have zero recollection of where you are based (if I ever knew). Flying any airplane doesn't require a degree, but training is always beneficial. I'm just surprised that a multi-year owner doesn't know what the static drain button is, and despite this missing knowledge is proud to never have received any model-specific training (where it would have been covered on the very first preflight inspection). On the other hand, I applaud your asking about unfamiliar things, it's a great way to learn. See you 'round the pattern somewhere, if we're in the same part of the world at the same time. There's a lot less badgering here than I've seen on other aviation sites, although some people do get things hung in their craw from time to time. We all do, it's part of being human; some deal with it better than others.

No pictures, but I went out to get some landings in for night currency. Mine would have expired today and we will be making a trip to AZ arriving after dark this weekend. Got to the hangar and did preflight and then cleaned her up while waiting for darkness to arrive... While sitting in the run up area going through everything another Mooney came on the frequency taxiing down from the west end. Nobody else on the radio so I took the chance to invite him to the KPRB Fly In (we have to get more planes than those Texas folk). He didn't know about it but is based out of San Luis Obispo so said he will probably come. After getting my landings in, fueling her up, and putting her away I drove around and slipped invitations to the fly in under the hangar doors where I know two Mooneys are on the field and then left invitations on three more that are tied down, slipping them between the flap and the wing, sticking out where they will see it when they go to step up in the wing walk. (Did I mention the effort to get more planes out than the Texas people? )

I haven't used anything but ForeFlight for weather briefings in the last five years or so. It's given in plain English, everything is decoded, the times are local, and there are pictures as opposed to charts. What's not to like?

My commute this morning

That's just not practical in a short body. To get in and out of the left seat, it really needs to be all the way back, which means touching the back seat. My wife always asks if she is clear to slide her seat back after I shut down, and its quick and easy to move anything on the floor out of the way.

You can keep the air driven or replace with an L3 500, Sandia (with field approval), G5 (with a kind installer), a lifesaver (with backup battery), or any electrically driven unit if you have dual batteries/alternator/bus.

Bought a 1970 M20E project with just under 2000 hours on the airframe. Not going to be able to finish it, needs good home. Built a wing and fuselage stand to easily move it around. Have everything except motor and instruments. I do also have a M20J cowl for this project, also have both the old aluminum one. Only damage is from a tear around an access panel from previous transport. Am located at KLHM (NE of Sacramento). I do have someone that will deliver it; happy to connect buyer with transport services. Would like $7500.00 Cheers, Mike Haag (916) 765-3410 mike@haagfamily.com

A bit more progress this afternoon.

The limits are normally set by the stops on the trim wheel. At the jack screw end the limit is set by the hing thingy in the tail and the control rods binding up on the other end. A properly rigged screw will never get to those limits.

Sorry, sold

Steps to safely rolling a Mooney M20J: Disassemble the aircraft Melt all the parts down Use the materials to form a pair of 2000 pound dummy practice bombs Strap bombs to bottom of an F-16 Go flying in the F-16 Do a barrel roll

Somebody is going to end this thread due to shear madness, craziness, and economic lunacy... The people on this site that own Brand B and Brand P, Are So committed to aviation, they also own more than one plane... Their dedication to aviation, extends out into the work that they do... And, In their spare time, they are great technical writers on MS. Aviation, 24/7! Way to set the bar! There is nothing wrong with the question. Just the environment that it is getting asked in... expect some bias... What I get out of this thread... The long body, not the J, is probably DJ’s interest... Now the next question... Turbo or NA engine to go with that? Focus on what DanB has to say... His Bravo is a spectacular cruising machine... Single plane ownership, No mechanical background required.... tremendous cruising range with options... For two people, 130 gallons goes pretty far... For four people, The Bravo can go longer than the four people.... Speed, Efficiency, Added layers of safety available, Go Mooney! I’m a NA kind of guy... went IO550.... Best regards, -a-

Heloman, 0) go to step 8) first.... then back to 1)... 1) See if you can reach in the tank and exercise the floats through their entire range... 2) If they are not sticking or bumping into something, Expect the variable resistor device to not be working properly... 3) before chasing the variable resistor, Check the calibration of the gauge... there should be a procedure for the adjustment. (Mechanic may be required for the proper documentation) 4) Check the logs... See if anything has been touched in the last 50 years... 5) If Nothing has been touched, a small amount of resistance at each connection may be responsible for the funky readings... 6) Pulling the sensor for OH is not too challenging. You get to see the seal that may still be cork, if original... also get a look at a small piece of rubber hose link connecting the fuel tank to the fuel line. Probably a collection of blue goo in the area, if nobody has been in there in decades.... 7) There is a company that OHs the sensor... probably an easy search to find.... 8) Use the normal high level of caution while working anywhere near fuel. Fire extinguishers ready to be deployed. Put in extra effort to ground things even if not needed... The C has the most simple fuel gauge system... one float, one variable resistor, one gauge, one wire(?).... per side. Memories of a PP, not a mechanic... did I miss anything? Best regards, -a-

Ill do that at the Mooney Summit Friday night reception Sept 28, with a little help from Premier Aircraft, Weep no More, and Oasis Aero

Funny! No, my flight went as planned. Unfortunately my old C is as tricked out as it’s going to get with me as the owner. It’s got a JPI700 and an FS450 fuel flow, it’s sort of the “ultimate cheap bastard C.” I want to upgrade my plane for one with more range [emoji24], but I won’t leave this problem for someone ells to figure out. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You can actually take the bearings apart by removing the snap rings that hold the shields on. The balls come out easily and you can compleatly clean the balls and races and re-assemble them with new grease.

You need to check how they are wired ar the inboard sensors. The sensors need to be in series. This requires the inboard sensor is not grounded and the wire from the outboard sensor is connected to the flange of the inboard sensor. The inboard sensor must be floating from ground by having TO3 transistor insulators under the screws. from what you say I suspect you will find the wire from the outboard sensor on the post of the inboard sensors. If the insulators are there it would take the inboard out of the circuit and only indicate from the outboard sensor. Because of the dihedral of the wing it won't start to go down until you are half empty and when you are empty only half of the sensors are in the circuit so it shows half a tank. The wire from the outer sensor should be connected to the inboard sensor by removing one of the flange screws and the insulator for that screw. Placing the ring terminal around the insulator and putting it back in the hole. This way the wire is connected to the sensor flange and isolated from the screw which is grounded.

Duats and DOS, then Windows 95.... The coolest thing was calling 1800wxbrief via cell phone to see if any TFRs had popped up during the hour between flight planning and departure... all via talking to a human.... in middle America somewhere, not very familiar with the local area.... All my duats passwords were written on the cover of my printed A/FDs... All gone to IPad now... had to go verify the spelling of the A/FD... Brings back memories, -a-

Where did you guys get your drag coefficients from? Did they include the rolling resistance of the car’s tires and/or the drag of the plane related to lift? In the automotive world, they probably have to account for the rolling resistance of the tires... somehow... ever push a plane with soft tires? Lots of rolling resistance compared to nicely filled tires... tires like 255/40 VR16s (90s Corvette) have a pretty wide footprint and are pretty draggy... Sitting a car in an aerodynamics tunnel and taking measurements would be the equivalent of putting a plane in the same tunnel and not accounting for the drag caused by lift. In the aviation drag increases as the MGTW is used. When comparing airframes also compare the engines... The M20J with an IO360 is a combination of speed and efficiency. Putting an IO550 in anything adds to the speed column, but the efficiency is going to suffer, some... 10 vs. 15 gph... 150kts vs. 175kts... (roughly speaking) If speed and efficiency are both important to you, the Mooney is your bird. If the extra 25kts is important to you, get the Mooney with an IO550 in it. PP, wearing an engineer’s hat tonight! Best regards, -a-

I agree completely and I was mostly just kidding. I just said that because I thought it was funny . I don’t actually do much computing with numbers when I’m lecturing - usually I’m presenting theorems or algorithms and proving them and describing how it all fits together logically. The funny thing is math profs don’t handle numbers much. You should see the comedy scene at a conference when 3 or 4 math profs are splitting the dinner check. I agree with your engineering prof / that one should know the order of magnitude of an answer that makes sense to back check a computed answer and I do that all the time when the occasion of working with numbers. in flying if you compute your fuel reserves and you come up with 275 hours ... check your computation.

Bob, Don't you realize that a significant number of people here have never seen a slide rule. I probably should be sorry for the hours I have invested in learning to use a slide rule; but I'm not.

On the way to Flagstaff yesterday.

Not PeytonM, but we overhauled our jackscrew assembly (by which I mean we R&R'd it, and had LASAR actually do the overhaul) just about a month ago. Here's what it looks like when first removed from the airplane. The big block in the middle contains the "nut" and the bearings. That's where you're going to find the old, dried up grease, as well as the (probably worn) shims. The shaft on the right attaches to the trim control rods that go down into the belly. The "screw" part on the left attaches to the tail, and is what's underneath this boot you can see when you remove the empennage fairing: Note the hole at the far lower right of the above photo. There are four of these, and that's how you get access to the bolts that go through the square block, and hold the jackscrew assembly in place.

don't press it during flight - its the ejection seat trigger

Pitot drain. Somebody’s transition training was lacking. Or maybe they forgot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to agree with PTK the target trend looks really nice. Much better than traffic in map view that ForeFlight uses.

TargetTrend is exclusive to Garmin products because they designed, developed, and patented it. The Lynx NGT-9000 is the only unit on the market that offers ATAS (https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/pilot/atas/), plus a built-in color touchscreen display to see the traffic and weather, plus a built-in TAS/TCAS processor, plus diversity, plus terrain. I'd call that feature rich!

You betcha, let me know if I need to make a phone call to get you the time off! Ron

Please pardon the naiveté of this question (just a PP, not yet an owner, and not instrument rating), but why not consider something like the Dynon D2 (http://www.dynonavionics.com/pocket-panel.php) for backup AI? It is, of course, not TSO, but nothing removable will be, and it's built on the same MEMS platform as Dynon's EFIS platforms. It should mount where you'd otherwise mount the phone, and it's got battery backup if your electrical system goes down. I'd personally be more comfortable, I think, with a single box with everything standing alone than with a panel-mounted backup AHRS connected by Bluetooth (not the most reliable protocol) to a phone if things went bad.... Assuming that there's a good reason no one suggested this approach, could someone let me know the error in my thinking? I'm not being facetious; I'm really looking to learn more from people with more experience.

I would not want to depend on a bluetooth iphone connection for my backup attitude though. I would definitely want the 660 hardwired to the GTX345. Still considerably less than the other backups and a lot more functional.

Right. And at around 1 AMU for the 660 and a panel dock, that's considerably less expensive than a G5 or similar. Still a lot more expensive than velcro'ing an old cellphone to a blank spot on the panel, though, which is what got this thread started. Decisions, decisions...

I recently had a magneto failure. After my last one I watched the Mike Busch webinar on magneto's. In his webinar talked about 25 people that he consulted that had magneto failures. They where a mix of pilot experience levels from I believe military, Airline, CFI,ect. He asked them all if they did a magneto check to select and run on the good magneto only. All of them did not and continued to run on both magnetos when it was only one causing the problems. I have to admit that I was guilty of this in all 3 of my failures and in my last one in particular I wish I did. I must of had some internal arching because 1 of my CHT's climbing sky high and could have been a serious emergency if I hadn't been close to the airport to land. After hearing this I went and checked my POH and sure enough in the emergency procedures for rough running engines it was there.

You live in Vero Beach and are looking for a Mooney? Not a lot of local pride I see.

I’ve played around with these portable backup AHRS a bit. If you are truly concerned about a single point of failure (and not relying on your superior partial panel skills), I would invest in a real backup AI. I have had my iPad lock up on me a couple of times. Fortunately never at an important time. A G5 may make sense for this. I’ve got the L-3 ESI-500 in my panel. It may be overkill but I find it a really easy AI to fly. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I have 3 boys so we won't all fit in the Mooney (with the wife). So my next plane is going to be a A36.

In New Jersey that's not being pissy, it's being nice. ;-)

Logged my 250th flight hour and passed my IR checkride. Woohoo!

Thanks for everyone's advice on this subject. I narrowed it down to three planes. Two individuals, one broker. The individuals were very reluctant to allow me to take their planes to a Mooney Service Center. Interestingly, the Mooney website listed Pensacola Aviation as a MSC, but when I called them they said they no longer did that, and that the POC listed on the Mooney Aircraft website no longer worked there. After getting voice mail at Mooney, (incidentally, they still haven't called back) I spoke with the good folks at MAPA, who immediately pointed me in the same direction as many here - the MSC in Longview. They were very nice on the phone, quoted me $1450 for a PPI. However, when I presented my offer to bring the aircraft to the MSC, one seller disagreed and offered contacts he knew. The other seller said "NO," as he didn't want the plane to be opened up and then have "things discovered" which was fine, I get it, it's his plane and he doesn't want it looked at in depth. The first seller basically said that they could find anything wrong with it at the MSC. The third plane offered by a broker said this when I asked about bringing it to a MSC "bring your checkbook, because you won't get it back out of there." It seemed that the mere mentioning of "mooney service center," or "Don Maxwell" would elicit the most severe responses from current Mooney owners offering their planes for sale, to the point of essentially eliminating two of the three. So, it's been a very interesting experience. As a note, although I'm not familiar with Mooney ownership (although I have flown them), I did own an older Cessna 310 about ten years ago, so I have been through the process of buying and selling a plane. Honestly, I've also been severely burned as well, and paid through the nose to get the plane right even after a successful PPI on the 310. In the end, I'll end up following the advice that the price of the plane may dictate how much I insist on taking it to a MSC or using an IA for a Pre-Purchase Inspection using perhaps, a "Plus" version of the inspection by adding some additional items I've read about here and seen. As an owner of an older airplane in the past, I'm fairly convinced that although the PPI can cover many things, this is no guarantee that serious things can come up later. In all honesty, the broker knows probably nothing about the plane he's offering to me whereas the individuals may be much more knowledgeable. Either way, when you're buying a fifty-year old plush airplane, things will break. Sorry for the length, just wanted to say thanks and I look forward to more insight and advice as this process continues!

There are lots of numbers that need to be evaluated and will certainly effect the value of a Mooney. TT is the least important of all the numbers. In fact, I wish TT would be replaced by UL in all Controller Mooney adverts.

Geez! Take it easy guys! You both bring a lot to this site and to GA. I've enjoyed both of your comments over the years!! We all get what we pay for from this site! It's still great tool! Relax! -Matt