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I read somewhere that you should only cycle the prop with full flaps if you have an AOA indicator, otherwise you'll burn up the cylinders.

Cycle the prop with full flaps, cowl flaps half open, and 50 degrees LOP while slowly richening to 100 degrees ROP.....

I can feel another food fight coming along.

I follow the manufacturer's recommendations that have not been disproven with more modern testing and recent data. Full disclosure, I've attended the APS class at GAMI and have seen their test facility and watched as tests have been run. I've also studied their data and the conclusions they've drawn from it. It was very convincing. But even before attending the class, I'd learned that the consensus from this forum and the BeechTalk forum, that pilots who get involved and study the data, consider shock cooling to be a myth. Whereas the defense for the issue of shock cooling comes from a simple, "it's the manufacturer's recommendation". I'm sorry, I shouldn't have been condescending about it. But its difficult not to see this as silly, when it has been so thoroughly debunked as a myth by the data.

What is the point of all this cycling...? 1) tests the oilP gauge to at least move... 2) sort of tests the governor's gear pump to pressurize the prop system... 3) refreshes the oil in the system, which is generally done over time, on its own... I have only had one failure, the plug in the crank shaft fell out and oil leaked out of the system. No oil pressure, no prop governor. The prop gets removed to hammer the aluminum disc plug back in its place. The leaked oil is all internal to the engine case. Did I miss anything? Best regards, -a-

Back to the subject of T&G's: Don't do them if you're not comfortable with them, but why haven't you become comfortable? T&G's do allow more landings in a shorter amount of time. Prior to the advanced simulators, we did T&G's in single and multi-pilot Navy aircraft. The airline did them for years with new pilots in big and small airplanes. I do them in all the airplanes I've owned, or rented. To me, a T&G is simply a maneuver. Practice and learn until proficient...or not.

If rw length is not a factor, i.e. >4000 ft or so, I prefer no flaps. I like the smooth liftoff and climb w/o flaps.

It flew today... Unfortunately I'm in Kenya but @bucko and @"Chocks" were able to fly it to KELA to finish the tank job that started this entire saga. Here's a few pics.

Actually you're wrong on your second point. I upgraded to the 2017 year model on the cargo pants.

The aft inboard corner of the battery. Coming off the battery contractor is a 6" long wire with a black inline style fuse holder in it. Inside is a glass fuse that blows.

FWIW You don't have to worry about getting oil circulating through the prop governor. it flows all the time. Oil from the governor goes to the front main bearing where it is channeled through the crank to the piston in the prop hub. The front main bearing lets the oil flow out the sides like all other main bearings. The governor supplies enough volume to maintain prop pressure in spite of the flow through the bearing. The oil in the prop hub is stagnant unless you cycle it which causes the oil to come out of the hub and be replaced with new oil.

I guess the folks in Arizona, don't even have to wait for the oil to come to temp since it's already there and shock cooling is less of an issue when the temps can't get below 120.

Once, or twice at the most. You also shouldn't let the RPM drop more than a couple hundred. Its hard on the engine, especially if the oil is still cold.

John Deakin says once is enough for most. That's what I do. https://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/Pelicans-Perch-16-Those-Marvelous-Props-182082-1.html Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wow. Reading this thread brought back some bad memories.... Flying a Seneca 2 along V2 GEG to SEA late at night. Winds over the mountains 130+ knots rolling over Mt. Rainier. Going to GEG was smooth with with good groundspeed. Coming back, very slow, but smooth.... till about 45 east of SEA. For those unfamiliar, that's just past the foothills of the cascades. I started the party at 10000MSL and all hell broke loose. The first hit took me to roughly 18000 with idle power and mostly out of control. Then three HUGE jolts and down to around 6100 (MEA for V2 is 8000). Three jolts and back up to 16000ish then back down to around 6500. Keep in mind, the engines were from overboost to idle (at this point is didn't give a crap about engine health) and the airspeed was between zero and Vne+20 I broke the overhead panel with my head, and the DG tumbled (thank the good LORD the attitude didn't tumble)! Finally flew out of it about five minutes later shaking and freezing. I had to pry my hand off the throttles. Needless to say, I was scared! Upon landing at BFI, I literally couldn't get out of the plane and SERIOUSLY considered my career choice. Decided I really did love flying that much to keep going. Result of aircraft inspection: - Main wing spar bent in two places - MANY rivets popped or missing - Tail twisted - Engine mount broken The mechanic told me I was a lucky guy. No kidding. I went for the ride! Lessons learned: - Mountain rotors are nothing to screw with - Piper makes a much stronger airframe than I gave them credit for at the time. - You are Fu**ed partial panel in that situation - That was back in 1995 and it still remember it like yesterday. Hoping to never have a repeat performance!

Yeah, but they didn't need to be back at work a week from Monday.

So if there is a mile of runway left, what's the harm in taking off again instead of stopping? I've been doing them in Mooneys for 33 years. I didn't know they were hard or dangerous until I joined Mooneyspace.

I went and found Mount Hood today. Also went up to 17,500 to see if I could make it... around 200fpm at that altitude, somewhat below gross, trued out at about 128. 15,500 seemed to give about 138 and 9.5GPH. Still need to do a better accounting of the power and fuel flow in the 5000-10000 foot range, I tried to level off every 2000 feet and lean out but my attempt to photograph the fuel flow readout didn't do so well. Also, the hangar elves need to check one of the EGT probes.

I had a fun and interesting flying weekend that is still in progress. Flexibility was required. The initial plan was for me to head to Boston (KBED) and meet my girlfriend and her kids flying there commercially. We were going to then fly her kids to friends (KBDL) and spend an adult weekend in Boston together. I took off from Erie, PA Friday morning to head to Boston and spend some time there on my own for a few hours before meeting up with everyone. I take off heading west, make the East turn and then as I am crossing through 9k for FL190, I saw the text message that the GF's flight from Cleveland to boston had been canceled. I called ATC and changed my destination from KBED to KCLE and 30 seconds later, I was given direct to Cleveland Hopkins. I had to run high power and fairly rich to burn fuel to be able to pick them up. Grabbed her and 2 small kids, then headed to KBDL to drop off her kids with their friends. Had to fly under O2 levels for the flight, per VIP request (see some of my other posts). Did a fun 600 overcast approach into KBDL. Then a quick flight and another 500-600 approach into KBED in boston. We had a great weekend in Boston. She gathered her kids by car and headed home by United . I had a great Father's Day afternoon with my daughter (who lives in Boston). I was able to make it as far home as Binghamton, NY before I ran into a wall. I tried to wait it out and sneak out after it passed, but the FBO was closing. The lone lineman tonight was great and when we realized that I wasn't getting home tonight, there was no hesitation for him to pull it into the hanger before the weather hit. I grabbed one of their cars and headed to a hotel. No rush to get home. I'll leave in the morning to get home by 7 ot 8 (1.5 hour flight +/-) as I start Neurotrauma call at 8. I do have backup if I can't make it. All the plan changes and unexpected delays are totally worth it to spend a few hours with my daughter today. Making my girlfriend happy, too, is a bonus. Couldn't have done it without my Mooney. N708PJ on flightaware for all the antics. Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there. My daughter is my #1 copilot and the reason that I do what I do. Brad

J cowl flaps are a lot more effective than previous versions. Locked open you can feel the buffeting in the floor of the plane.

Try running your gopro in an air conditioned room with the housing off and see if it lasts longer than in the plane. Then you'll have your answer. I lost a lot of good footage last year because my gopro would overheat and shut off randomly. Sometimes 15 minutes sometimes an hour into a flight. Kind of depends on how the sun is hitting them. This is inside the plane mostly. Outside, they seem to cool off better with the oncoming air. But if the OAT is really high, it may still be a problem.

Thank you for your input. Much appreciated.

It's probably a friend of the Seller trying to help him drive up the price.

I will have to look in the hangar but I removed a crackup step from an E model years ago. I will make the whole assembly available to you so you have some extra parts for the future. Will get to the hangar this week and let you know. Walt Bell

The M20M & M20R parts manual shows an alternate part number for the replaceable screw-in part to be a DD-1W made by TCO. Here's one on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DD1W-Static-Wick-/132201852553 I wouldn't lose any sleep over buying the non-certified version (same part number $22.47) : http://www.skygeek.com/tco-dd1w-static-wick.html (I bought one of these in November 2014 from SkyGeek for an Ovation I had. If I remember correctly the DD-1W are more flexible. On the first Bravo I owned it seemed like there was always one broken (10-900-59/1))

Taking off with Landing Flaps and Takeoff Trim is a whole different ballgame than a sudden, low-level go around with Landing Flaps and Landing Trim. The first time you try that, please be plenty high!! I find the trim has a more pronounced effect than the flaps do, and can require significant arm strength while spinning the trim wheel! But then, your nice new ride has electric trim, so you can push with both arms . . . . .

John, the 10-900-60-1 wick I sent you is the best (and only) option available for the Ovation, Bravo/TLS, Eagle, and Acclaim platforms. They do have some good flexibility to them, so I'm a bit surprised at the ease which you mention these have broken. Although line crews should be paying more attention to these and using a bit more care when moving around them, I personally have never had one break due to a "slight" bump or nudge to them...and I've brushed against mine more than a few times and have been surprised they haven't broken, given the force I've seen to have hit them with. Aviall sells these brand new for ~$54, so anyone with an account there should be able to order them easily. Steve

I have spent the last two years tweaking this plane but I'm just not flying enough right now to keep her. So Iam listing it here first and see how it goes then maybe trade a plane. I'm listing it from work so don't have everything in front of be but here is a start I will try to update later. If you have questions please feel free to shoot me a PM. Not alway able to follow listing. Just finished annual with DonMaxwell. Also installed gtx345 ads-b in and out receive weather and traffic. Garmin 430, brittain ll auto pilot, gma 340 audio panel, JPI 830 engine monitor. Prop overhauled at annual. New cylinders, fuel injectors& lines , sky-tec start, fuel flow dividers, spider, gee bee engine baffles, exhaust pipe, donuts , tires , Sorry about inverted pics don't know how to rotate them.

I flew to Tucson last week. It was 119 when I took off. The plane flew fine. The OAT at 6500 was 91F. The oil temperature never got below 205.

Take a look at the log of the CHT when opening the cowl flaps before landing and leaving them closed. You'll be firewalling a 150 degree engine instead of a 230 degree one On a J model at least, locking the cowl flaps full open in flight damages the hinges, and eventually tears out the rivets that hold the cowl flap frames in the cowl and eventually will tear the cowl flaps frames too. I replaced all that but it's probably a 2k job for the work. There's really no need for anything more that trailed open for takeoff.

I always open my cowl flaps before landing. It's one less thing to do on a go-around (or touch and go). The concept of shock cooling using air as a coolant never made sense to me. Why doesn't flying WOT at cruise speed with high cylinder temperatures into pouring rain at 40F have a damaging effect? I'd imagine throwing bucket loads of cold water onto the cylinders at high speed would be several orders of magnitude more potent than just opening cowl flaps.

Absolutely. A large number of pilots miss the point of this step by deep-cycling their props. The purpose of the step is to allow a bit of hot oil into the governor, which shouldn't take more than a hundred RPM drop or so. Multiple cycles, and/or multiple deep cycles will task the engine unnecessarily, especially if any counter weights were installed during balancing.

Good point on oil temp. Personally I wait for oil temp to reach 130°F or so before run up.

...and another topic was referred to as a "food fight!" Two of them in this one. Simple technique choices reaching religious proportions.

My neck was starting to hurt.

Me: I know you’re always looking to see what works best in your B-Kool so what do you recommend nowadays ? Bob: Block ice all the way..if you want more, fill the voids with crushed ice..we routinely see more than 2 hours of ice cold air. If your unit is an older blue one, we need to upgrade it..more than doubles air velocity. Upgrade is $125 and includes replacing any non functioning, components, takes about 1.5 hours. I'm flying up to Sedona to have Bob upgrade my B-Kool unit later this week.

I owned this airplane from 1984 through 2003. It is a fantastic airplane, someone give it a good home.

I gave up on aopa. EAA gets my dues now. Check to see if EAA has a more proactive and pragmatic approach to winning this battle.

Go MS! -a-

Congrats mpg! Re-learning is an awesome experience. It is a lot like learning the first time, but you pick things up so much easier/faster the second time around. Trying to remember it all is a different challenge... Have you gone through all the new weather services and picked a favorite? Things to avoid... 1) don't run out of gas. You already had the warning... 2) Don't fly VFR into IMC... 3) Don't fly into thunderstorms... 4) you have a few months to re-learn the next one... avoid flying in icing conditions. We Finally have you back flying long X-countries, no need to skip these important issues... PP 101, how to get in trouble early on... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a-

With all the high surge we had from this system that just passed through us this week, the fishing camp is good!

Absolutely, and that is an argument I can live with vs. because it is a complex aircraft. If one were to say that as a single pilot, with limited touch and go practice they don't feel comfortable then I have no arguments. But for me with 1000's of T&Gs in multiple complex, high-performance aircraft, I have no issues resetting flaps, trim and increasing the throttle, just saying its a complex aircraft is a copout.

Bingo. (25 years for me.) For The Turtle- I use "take off flaps" (2 pumps) for touch and go landing practice. One reason is so that I have one less thing to do when transitioning from landing to takeoff, the other is that it lands so dang nice with partial flaps. I would be very reluctant to do them on a 2000' runway. I'd prefer 4000'. I like doing them every now and then because they're fun, different, decent practice for a go around or bounced landing, and I'm not afraid of my airplane. I like trying to not let the nose wheel touch the ground.

Home depot has tinted acrylic sheets. Use the other side as a pattern. The adel clamps that go on the fuel lines on top of the engine are about the right size if you need another clamp. Amazon also has tinted acrylic sheets

I think I would have rather crashed than safety wire this damn prop (joking of course). Holy hell--what a pain in the ass!!!!

Yaay, Tom! Two successes---your Mooney is up again, and Basic Med is getting another Mooney pilot back in the air!

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3 new members of the Presidents Club already! This is a terrific way to support the Mooney Community, get registered, get a tax deduction, get a plaque, and get a boatload of raffle tix for some outstanding products donated by our sponsors, oh, and while it lasts, save a boatload of $ on lodging! Thanks everyone for your support!

I don't fear hot starts. Taught by transition instructor. Shut down at 1100 rpm by pulling mixture. On start up. Do nothing except crank. Then add mixture when fires. How do you know it is flooded? When you add mixture and it dies. When flooded. Open throttle full open, closed mixture. Crank. When fires, do the two handed dance on mixture and throttle to keep running.