Suggestions for Prebuy near GMAX

[Flyler]

Hello my fellow Mooney cohorts,

Hopefully this is the last Mooney hunt I need to perform.  I've become a bit battle hardened in my search for a Mooney and finally said "why don't I just listen to the half dozen people who have recommended Jimmy and give him a call?"  Looks like I should've acted on that sooner.

Can someone recommend a Mooney-familiar who could do a prebuy near GMAX in Spring Branch TX?

[mike_elliott]

Brian Kendrick in San Marcos, JD Casteel SWTA in Smithville, Dougosh in Kerrville 

lots of great choices

[Danb]

Dmax 

[Ragsf15e]

40 minutes ago, Danb said:

Dmax 

Not if he’s using Jimmy as their business is connected.

[Flyler]

15 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Not if he’s using Jimmy as their business is connected.

Yep, that's the only reason I wouldn't call Don first.  Jimmy is straight forward there as well- he trusts Don through and through but there's a conflict of interest there.

[Falcon Man]

If you are serious enough to have a pre-purchase performed on an airplane, have you considered a 100 hr inspection, which could qualify as an annual? The reason being is that with used airplanes things change since the previous annual. I have had pre-purchase inspections by Mooney service centers over the years and there were always big annuals down the road. Also, it is wise to have the airplane avionics examined in flight because this is rarely done on airplane purchases. Finally, the POH  W & B paperwork rarely is accurate. Pay to have the airplane actually weighed on the digital scales. My Mooney mechanic (KNR, INC) says all of the ones he has weighed are heavier than the paperwork.

FWIW

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Falcon Man said:

If you are serious enough to have a pre-purchase performed on an airplane, have you considered a 100 hr inspection, which could qualify as an annual? The reason being is that with used airplanes things change since the previous annual. I have had pre-purchase inspections by Mooney service centers over the years and there were always big annuals down the road. Also, it is wise to have the airplane avionics examined in flight because this is rarely done on airplane purchases. Finally, the POH  W & B paperwork rarely is accurate. Pay to have the airplane actually weighed on the digital scales. My Mooney mechanic (KNR, INC) says all of the ones he has weighed are heavier than the paperwork.

FWIW

My principal inspector says anybody who does a 100 hr inspection is a fool. He says just do annuals. You can do annuals every day if you like. The only time you want to do a 100 hr is if you are not an IA. An A&P can do a 100 hr.

[Vance Harral]

While it's understandable that annual/100 hour inspections come up in the context of Prebuy inspections, I think we'd all be better off if everyone just said these things have nothing to do with each other.  That's an oversimplification, but my point is that for the vast majority of airplanes, there is only limited overlap between the items on the annual/100 hour checklist, and the "big ticket" items that you really, really want to find on a prebuy.

For example, anyone buying my airplane should look very carefully at the main and stub spar for corrosion (including looking inside the fuel tanks), ask to remove at least some of the interior panels to inspect for roll cage corrosion, examine the state of the "unobtanium" air intake boot, try to convince me to let them pull and inspect the landing gear actuator, check the amount of play in the empennage attach point, and ask for an in-flight demonstration of operation of the GTN/G5 system, the Brittain autopilot, and how they interact with each other.  Among other things.  None of this is mentioned in the annual/100-hour checklist, but that checklist does require inspection of spark plugs, air filters, light bulbs, and all kinds of other stuff that while important for operation, is not important with respect to whether you're about to buy a lemon.

Yes, you need an annual to be legal, and it might be convenient to do one while the airplane is already apart for a pre-buy.  And yes, a skilled shop will know what things to check on a pre-buy.  But that skilled shop is also rolling their eyes behind your back if you say, "Hey, instead of a pre-buy, can you do a full annual to really check out the airplane?"

Bottom line: a prebuy is a prebuy, an annual is an annual.  They're different inspections with different purposes, even at a good shop.  You may happen to need both at the same time, but don't confuse one with the other.

[DCarlton]

18 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

While it's understandable that annual/100 hour inspections come up in the context of Prebuy inspections, I think we'd all be better off if everyone just said these things have nothing to do with each other.  That's an oversimplification, but my point is that for the vast majority of airplanes, there is only limited overlap between the items on the annual/100 hour checklist, and the "big ticket" items that you really, really want to find on a prebuy.

For example, anyone buying my airplane should look very carefully at the main and stub spar for corrosion (including looking inside the fuel tanks), ask to remove at least some of the interior panels to inspect for roll cage corrosion, examine the state of the "unobtanium" air intake boot, try to convince me to let them pull and inspect the landing gear actuator, check the amount of play in the empennage attach point, and ask for an in-flight demonstration of operation of the GTN/G5 system, the Brittain autopilot, and how they interact with each other.  Among other things.  None of this is mentioned in the annual/100-hour checklist, but that checklist does require inspection of spark plugs, air filters, light bulbs, and all kinds of other stuff that while important for operation, is not important with respect to whether you're about to buy a lemon.

Yes, you need an annual to be legal, and it might be convenient to do one while the airplane is already apart for a pre-buy.  And yes, a skilled shop will know what things to check on a pre-buy.  But that skilled shop is also rolling their eyes behind your back if you say, "Hey, instead of a pre-buy, can you do a full annual to really check out the airplane?"

Bottom line: a prebuy is a prebuy, an annual is an annual.  They're different inspections with different purposes, even at a good shop.  You may happen to need both at the same time, but don't confuse one with the other.

I've found annuals to be exhausting and without owner participation, they often require another visit to the shop for rework.  The days of $2K one week and done annuals are long gone where I live.  I've struggled with how I will ever sell my airplane.  If I let someone remove my interior for example, who's going to be there to make sure it goes back together the same way or better than it came apart (it's a tedious job that no one wants to do).  If they buy it, I won't care; if they don't I'll be pissed picking up the pieces.  I've considered that I might let someone do extra work during an annual but I'd have a hard time letting someone else tear apart a flying airplane outside of an annual.  The only thing that seems viable to me, is to attempt to sell during an annual with the potential buyer covering costs for things that go beyond minimum annual requirements.  Basic annuals are costing $4K.  Add anything extra and you'll run the bill up to $6K quickly.  For a $300K airplane, a $6+K annual/prebuy might make sense but what about a $100K airplane.  How much are you going to spend.  I figure I'll end up selling at wholesale to a mechanic or handing it over to a broker and letting them handle any inspections.  I've even considered donating to a University to avoid the hassle of selling.  Curious what others think.  

[Vance Harral]

I sympathize with your frustration about annuals.  I've come to think of owner participation as mandatory - it's just too frustrating and expensive an experience otherwise (in particular, I've had lousy experiences at more than one "big name" MSC).  We're fortunate to both enjoy owner-assist work, and to have established relationships with IAs who allowed us to participate over the years, but not everyone is so inclined or so fortunate.  Our current mechanic talks with increasing sincerity about exiting the aircraft maintenance business, and I'm not sure what we'll do if that happens.  Hopefully we can find another nearby shop that will allow us to assist.  Speaking only for myself and not my partners, if it becomes nonviable to conduct owner-assisted annuals, I'll likely sell my share of the airplane, and move to E-AB, even if I have to do so at a discounted sales price.

Because I have a lot of hands-on experience with this particular airplane, including the removal and inspection of various critical components, I would not be troubled by a potential buyer who wants a robust pre-buy inspection that requires more disassembly than might otherwise be involved in that year's annual.  I'm no more concerned about "tearing apart the airplane" as part of the sales process than I am about doing exactly the same work for our own confidence that the airplane remains airworthy, e.g. removing the landing gear actuator, removing interior panels, etc.  There are limits, of course - I'm not going to split the engine case for a potential buyer - but I'm otherwise pretty liberal, and thus a good match for a meticulous buyer.  Again, though, that's a luxury not everyone has.  So I don't begrudge you a reluctance to allow work outside the scope of an "ordinary" annual during the sales process.  But I also wouldn't buy an airplane from you, because an annual inspection isn't going to cover the things I consider to be substantial financial risks.

On that note, when you speak of $6K as being an excessive cost for a $100K airplane, that doesn't really make much sense to me.  Our airplane is worth a little under $100K, but just like much more expensive Mooneys, it costs us thousands of dollars in insurance and thousands more in hangar rent every year, before we've burned a single drop of avgas.  We also paid several thousand dollars of tax when we bought the airplane, and that was in 2004.  People who have correctly internalized the fixed costs of ownership, as well as the value of their own time, are going to compare pre-buy costs to the ongoing cost of operating the airplane, and the lost opportunity if they wind up holding a lemon.  Those things matter as much or more than the acquisition price.

But the fact that I wouldn't be a good buyer for your airplane when/if you sell, doesn't make me right and you wrong.  There are all kinds of buyers for various sellers.  You're certainly not alone in your thoughts about selling at wholesale prices or simply giving the airplane away to an institution who won't fly it.  Richard Collins famously scrapped his beloved P210; and I have a family member who built an E-AB airplane and owns half of a 1960s-era light twin struggling with the same issues as he ages.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, DCarlton said:

I've found annuals to be exhausting and without owner participation, they often require another visit to the shop for rework.  The days of $2K one week and done annuals are long gone where I live.  I've struggled with how I will ever sell my airplane.  If I let someone remove my interior for example, who's going to be there to make sure it goes back together the same way or better than it came apart (it's a tedious job that no one wants to do).  If they buy it, I won't care; if they don't I'll be pissed picking up the pieces.  I've considered that I might let someone do extra work during an annual but I'd have a hard time letting someone else tear apart a flying airplane outside of an annual.  The only thing that seems viable to me, is to attempt to sell during an annual with the potential buying covering costs for things that go beyond minimum annual requirements.  Basic annuals are costing $4K.  Add anything extra and you'll run the bill up to $6K quickly.  For a $300K airplane, a $6+K annual/prebuy might make sense but what about a $100K airplane.  How much are you going to spend.  I figure I'll end up selling at wholesale to a mechanic or handing it over to a broker and letting them handle any inspections.  I've even considered donating to a University to avoid the hassle of selling.  Curious what others think.  

I'm in the same situation.  And, yes, an annual at a big name MSC is going to run $6K.  I spring for that every couple of years, meanwhile I'm lucky to have a reasonably local IA that runs around $3.5K including a few repairs.  If no long lead-time parts, I'm done in under 2 weeks at either shop.  I consider myself very fortunate. While I've always been a 'hands on' type and do most of my own automotive repairs (including engine rebuilding) I've not been involved in any of my 7 annuals.  I do tend to fix discrepancies myself throughout the year with the oversight and sign-off of a local A&P friend; helps keep the annual cost low.  Yes, the annual is a chunk of cost when compared to the value of my plane but I just swallow hard when I sign the check and remind myself how lucky I am to be able to afford my hobby!

When it comes to resale I just accept that I'm likely not going to get much; it's a 55 year old piece of equipment now, albeit with very functional IFR avionics including altitude holding GPSS A/P, but it's the NOT spiffy glass that everyone wants these days.  Hopefully, I'll enjoy it for the next 10 or more years, at which point it will really be just a shell that someone will use as a starting point, best case.  I make myself feel better by realizing that I will have spent FAR more money owning it for 20 years than what I paid.  What I sell it for is going to be pretty immaterial to my financial situation so my plan is to price it to sell to someone that isn't going to insist on 'tearing it apart' for a pre-buy...I'll show the 'tear it apart' people the door!  Might even try a Dutch auction when the time comes

[DCarlton]

15 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

I sympathize with your frustration about annuals.  I've come to think of owner participation as mandatory - it's just too frustrating and expensive an experience otherwise (in particular, I've had lousy experiences at more than one "big name" MSC).  We're fortunate to both enjoy owner-assist work, and to have established relationships with IAs who allowed us to participate over the years, but not everyone is so inclined or so fortunate.  Our current mechanic talks with increasing sincerity about exiting the aircraft maintenance business, and I'm not sure what we'll do if that happens.  Hopefully we can find another nearby shop that will allow us to assist.  Speaking only for myself and not my partners, if it becomes nonviable to conduct owner-assisted annuals, I'll likely sell my share of the airplane, and move to E-AB, even if I have to do so at a discounted sales price.

Because I have a lot of hands-on experience with this particular airplane, including the removal and inspection of various critical components, I would not be troubled by a potential buyer who wants a robust pre-buy inspection that requires more disassembly than might otherwise be involved in that year's annual.  I'm no more concerned about "tearing apart the airplane" as part of the sales process than I am about doing exactly the same work for our own confidence that the airplane remains airworthy, e.g. removing the landing gear actuator, removing interior panels, etc.  There are limits, of course - I'm not going to split the engine case for a potential buyer - but I'm otherwise pretty liberal, and thus a good match for a meticulous buyer.  Again, though, that's a luxury not everyone has.  So I don't begrudge you a reluctance to allow work outside the scope of an "ordinary" annual during the sales process.  But I also wouldn't buy an airplane from you, because an annual inspection isn't going to cover the things I consider to be substantial financial risks.

On that note, when you speak of $6K as being an excessive cost for a $100K airplane, that doesn't really make much sense to me.  Our airplane is worth a little under $100K, but just like much more expensive Mooneys, it costs us thousands of dollars in insurance and thousands more in hangar rent every year, before we've burned a single drop of avgas.  We also paid several thousand dollars of tax when we bought the airplane, and that was in 2004.  People who have correctly internalized the fixed costs of ownership, as well as the value of their own time, are going to compare pre-buy costs to the ongoing cost of operating the airplane, and the lost opportunity if they wind up holding a lemon.  Those things matter as much or more than the acquisition price.

But the fact that I wouldn't be a good buyer for your airplane when/if you sell, doesn't make me right and you wrong.  There are all kinds of buyers for various sellers.  You're certainly not alone in your thoughts about selling at wholesale prices or simply giving the airplane away to an institution who won't fly it.  Richard Collins famously scrapped his beloved P210; and I have a family member who built an E-AB airplane and owns half of a 1960s-era light twin struggling with the same issues as he ages.

You may have misunderstood my position.  I agree with your first post but I struggle with a practical way to execute it unless it’s done during the downtime associated with an annual.  I also view owner participation as mandatory. If I can’t do it, I’ll likely stop flying.  I’m coming off of four months of maintenance (30% of the value of the airplane) and feel lucky to be able to fly again.  Every annual I feel lucky to get through It.  Tearing apart an airplane that’s current for someone that MIGHT buy it is not attractive.  Leaving it with someone like GMAX that can broker and support a pre buy inspection may be the best approach for me.  I’ll talk to a broker when the time comes.  Regarding the possibility of donation, I was considering one with mechanics on staff to deal with it and either use it or sell it.  

[TheAv8r]

On 4/30/2025 at 7:14 AM, Flyler said:

Hello my fellow Mooney cohorts,

Hopefully this is the last Mooney hunt I need to perform.  I've become a bit battle hardened in my search for a Mooney and finally said "why don't I just listen to the half dozen people who have recommended Jimmy and give him a call?"  Looks like I should've acted on that sooner.

Can someone recommend a Mooney-familiar who could do a prebuy near GMAX in Spring Branch TX?

Hey Flyler, I know an A&P IA nearby who's very familiar with Mooneys (he's owned 3), but he does it on the side so I'd need to check and see if he'd be willing to do it, you'd likely need to relocate the aircraft to him. 

You can also try BK Aircraft at KAXH, Brian Isbell, the shop owner, has worked on my Mooney and a good amount of others and knows his stuff.

[Flyler]

Thank you.  In case it is helpful for others who search later on, I was also recommended Keith Kehoe of KNK Aviation.  He's a Mooney owner as well.

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, Flyler said:

Thank you.  In case it is helpful for others who search later on, I was also recommended Keith Kehoe of KNK Aviation.  He's a Mooney owner as well.

I would still stick with the 1st recommendation being Brian Kendrick if you want him to find everything - he will. He lives in Kerrville and commutes to San Marcos everyday. No seller with anything to hide wants Brian to do the pre-buy. That’s why I would want him. If he would be willing to do it, there’s no one better.

If not then Dugosh in Kerrville would be next on my list. But as long as I’ve owned Mooneys around this area I’ve never heard of Keith Kehoe - he might be good, but seems strange that in 32+ years I haven’t heard of him.  

[Flyler]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would still stick with the 1st recommendation being Brian Kendrick if you want him to find everything - he will. He lives in Kerrville and commutes to San Marcos everyday. No seller with anything to hide wants Brian to do the pre-buy. That’s why I would want him. If he would be willing to do it, there’s no one better.

If not then Dugosh in Kerrville would be next on my list. But as long as I’ve owned Mooneys around this area I’ve never heard of Keith Kehoe - he might be good, but seems strange that in 32+ years I haven’t heard of him.  

Thank you sir!  Regarding Dugosh, when I called they stated that they do not do Prebuys anymore.  Brian Kendrick is too busy (that's a good sign).  There are a few names left here that I have not reached out to yet, which I plan to do tomorrow.  I might give Mr. Kendrick another post, perhaps I reached him at a particularly swamped time and can get some of his valuable time.

[DCarlton]

14 hours ago, Flyler said:

Thank you sir!  Regarding Dugosh, when I called they stated that they do not do Prebuys anymore.  Brian Kendrick is too busy (that's a good sign).  There are a few names left here that I have not reached out to yet, which I plan to do tomorrow.  I might give Mr. Kendrick another post, perhaps I reached him at a particularly swamped time and can get some of his valuable time.

Curious.  I understand the potential conflict of interest but will Maxwells shop do it if asked?  Will they let you participate or observe?  If you buy from GMAX do you get bumped up in the shops queue? 

[Flyler]

Just now, DCarlton said:

Curious.  Will Maxwells shop do it if asked?  Will they let you participate or observe?  

IIRC in my converstaion with Jimmy, they would perform it if asked but he suggests I find a true third party source.  It's sound advice.  I'm visiting the plane on Monday to get eyes on it.  I'll try to pop in to Don's shop to see if I can get a handshake from him while I'm there.  I made a mistake in location as well- the plane is at KGGG and not Spring Branch.

"It's still in Texas, it can't be that far away" the silly thoughts of a CT native... 

[DCarlton]

30 minutes ago, Flyler said:

IIRC in my converstaion with Jimmy, they would perform it if asked but he suggests I find a true third party source.  It's sound advice.  I'm visiting the plane on Monday to get eyes on it.  I'll try to pop in to Don's shop to see if I can get a handshake from him while I'm there.  I made a mistake in location as well- the plane is at KGGG and not Spring Branch.

"It's still in Texas, it can't be that far away" the silly thoughts of a CT native... 

Don't listen to me...  I'm not an expert, don't listen to me...  but if it was a plane I really wanted and it was already at KGGG, I think I would be fine with DMAX doing the inspection as long as they would let me observe and as long as they could schedule and do the work in a predictable manner and as long as we agreed to the scope of the inspection in advance.  However, I have 20+ years of M20 ownership and familiarity with my M20.  

[Ricky_231]

56 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Don't listen to me...  I'm not an expert, don't listen to me...  but if it was a plane I really wanted and it was already at KGGG, I think I would be fine with DMAX doing the inspection as long as they would let me observe and as long as they could schedule and do the work in a predictable manner and as long as we agreed to the scope of the inspection in advance.  However, I have 20+ years of M20 ownership and familiarity with my M20.  

I'm with you there. I bought a K a while ago and had Dugosh do a pre-buy turned annual. I didn't stay there all the time, but dropped in a few times during the inspection to check on things etc. They caught some stuff, but the biggest issue at the time I caught on the test flight (AI needed overhauling - had an issue that rendered the AP unreliable). 

Last year I bought an Eagle from Jimmy, that was already at KGGG for an engine install. Maxwell did the annual, which in my mind served as a pre-buy. I spent a week in Longview, TX. Dropped in daily - same drill. The Maxwells were very accommodating, answered all my questions, addressed all the issues that were found (things like a blown voltage regulator, worn tires, adjusted the speed breaks etc.), and did a couple of extra things I asked for, like spraying corrosion X in the wings (I was bringing it to SC near the ocean) and other minor stuff. Paul also took me up on a flight as he was breaking in the engine, which doubled as a test flight and I was able to check avionics, AP, rigging etc.

After 70 hours, a few things popped up here and there but I don't think any of it could've been prevented at the time. Just normal stuff that breaks in an airplane.

My rationale for not insisting on an independent pre-buy was simple: between Jimmy and Maxwell, they have built a solid reputation over the years, which I don't think either would want to tarnish by selling you/signing off on a plane riddled with issues, or try to hide anything. If I were buying from an individual or a lesser known/less specialized broker, I'd sure want a pre-buy, as I did with the K. But with the plane already in East Texas, I'd choose convenience and Maxwell's reputation over flying it elsewhere for a pre-buy.

My 2 cents. I'm sure a lot of people here disagree.