oil analysis - recommendations?

[AJ88V]

Didn't do an oil analysis last annual because the plane was annualled and then did not fly due to loss of medical. 

Now approaching 10 hours after annual and wondering if that's enough time on the engine to do an analysis and get a baseline.  Running fine - keep going?  or sample now?

Also, any recommendations for oil analysis services? 

Thanks!

[redbaron1982]

It is usually better to do the oil analysis at regular intervals, as otherwise, you need to account for how many hours did you run the engine between oil changes.

Your oil volume is always the same, let's say 6qt. The amount of metals will increase as you fly. So, ppm-wise, you will see twice as many metals in the oil after 20 hours vs. 10 hours of flight time.

 

[Marc_B]

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/maintenance/oil-labs-compared/

Not sure why this comparison didn't include Blackstone?

 

As an aside, Blackstone has an analyst add a little blurb about your report numbers; most of the other companies just send raw data and let you interpret it.  But they're also one of the more expensive options.

Big metal gets picked up in filter so a cut and inspected filter is probably going to give more immediate information.  I always got the impression that oil analysis is better as a TREND analysis.  So the better option if using it that way is to keep the flight time similar from sample to sample.  So choose your oil change interval and just send routine samples each oil change.  There can also be variations between labs, so pick a single company and stick with it to keep trends more clearly visible.

[Pinecone]

Blackstone will combine previous reports if the previous owner had it in oil analysis with them.  So you can get trend info earlier.

Also, the analyst will comment on numbers versus hours for short sample intervals.

BTW, they have a device to pull an oil sample without draining the oil. 

While 10 hours is fairly short, it will not hurt anything to do a sample now.

[AJ88V]

15 hours ago, Marc_B said:

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/maintenance/oil-labs-compared/

Not sure why this comparison didn't include Blackstone?

Thanks @redbaron1982 and @Marc_B for your responses!

Av Consumer article didn't mention Blackstone because it didn't exist in 2001 when that article was written!   They do mention Howard Fenton, who sold Engine Oil Analysis (EOA) to Blackstone Labs in 2002 (https://www.avweb.com/features/howard-fenton/)

Anyway....  I called Blackstone this morning and described the situation.  They said they like to see a minimum of 10 hours on the oil and were comfortable when I said I'd run her up to 20 hours and then change.  I figure that's a low interval for the first change, but enough to get a good baseline on the engine, which, aside from my paranoia looked good in the borescope.

Thanks again.

--- edit ---

thanks @Pinecone for your response.  I've owned the plane for over 25 years and have not done engine oil analysis.  This is coming from knowing the plane didn't fly much while life intervened, and then losing my medical for nearly 3 years.  Now I'm praying the cam is ok since I already rebuilt the engine once . 

[Marc_B]

1 hour ago, AJ88V said:

Av Consumer article didn't mention Blackstone because it didn't exist in 2001 when that article was written! 

Ahh.  That was my initial guess, but when I looked on Blackstone's website they said established in 1985; so wasn't sure when they started aircraft oil analysis.

[MooneyMitch]

Complete satisfaction with Blackstone for my former Mooney’s and autos as well. 

[EricJ]

6 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

Ahh.  That was my initial guess, but when I looked on Blackstone's website they said established in 1985; so wasn't sure when they started aircraft oil analysis.

Many of the oil analysis companies started out doing heavy equipment and moved into aviation and other areas just to expand their market.   I have a buddy that does oil analysis for Caterpillar and also does aviation and keeps bugging me to move over there from Blackstone.    I wouldn't be surprised if Blackstone has a similar history.

[phxcobraz]

Blackstone sometimes alarms at high amounts of wear metals between changes if you run longer or shorter, so I try and send in samples from the same usage period to get true trend analysis. 
Blackstone has caught some trends on mine that I was able to rectify. They found more silica than normal and pointed at checking the air filter for leaks. The filter element was brand new but I found the duct had a small tear in it. Once repaired the silica level went back to normal. Thankfully was only about 40hrs between samples. 
For me it’s well worth the cost. 

[Echo]

What is cost for blackstone oil analysis?

[Justin Schmidt]

5 minutes ago, Echo said:

What is cost for blackstone oil analysis?

35

[Utah20Gflyer]

Just run the oil for 50 hours and do the oil analysis then.   I wouldn’t change my operational regime just to get that data point.  

[UteM20F]

We use Blackstone and are very happy with their service.  As mentioned previously, the analyst gives a quick blurb about the results.  Here's a snippet from our most recent analysis:

"Aluminum, chrome, and iron all nudged up a bit, and there's a little more copper and nickel in the oil than normal, too. When metals nudge up in unison like this, sometimes it's just due to operational factors like harder use/higher temp, for example. If the engine runs well and the oil filter is clean, we're not quick to think there's a problem, but let's see how metals trend from here. Note that the viscosity was a little thick; that's often a sign of heat on the oil."

Hopefully this is a one-off.  We just sent the latest batch in for testing...

And finally, we got an email from Blackstone that their prices are going to $40 with the new year, but they sell multi-test packages at a discount.

- Ute

[phxcobraz]

7 minutes ago, UteM20F said:

We use Blackstone and are very happy with their service.  As mentioned previously, the analyst gives a quick blurb about the results.  Here's a snippet from our most recent analysis:

"Aluminum, chrome, and iron all nudged up a bit, and there's a little more copper and nickel in the oil than normal, too. When metals nudge up in unison like this, sometimes it's just due to operational factors like harder use/higher temp, for example. If the engine runs well and the oil filter is clean, we're not quick to think there's a problem, but let's see how metals trend from here. Note that the viscosity was a little thick; that's often a sign of heat on the oil."

Hopefully this is a one-off.  We just sent the latest batch in for testing...

And finally, we got an email from Blackstone that their prices are going to $40 with the new year, but they sell multi-test packages at a discount.

- Ute

I also had high viscosity on my recent one too which I attribute to a fair bit of IFR training and lots of hot climbs in the late summer/fall. My number 3 CHT will often hit 420 in climb. Which also causes the oil temperature to increase.

[A64Pilot]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:19 AM, EricJ said:

Many of the oil analysis companies started out doing heavy equipment and moved into aviation and other areas just to expand their market.   I have a buddy that does oil analysis for Caterpillar and also does aviation and keeps bugging me to move over there from Blackstone.    I wouldn't be surprised if Blackstone has a similar history.

I don’t know if Cat will do aircraft engines, but in the rest of the world they are known as pretty much the best analysis people out there, but in truth I think there are all good from what I have seen.

I don’t know what they cost either, currently I’m using Amsoil to determine a change interval on my motorhome based on soot load, because my engine pumps an abnormally large amount of exhaust into the intake for emissions and they include soot in their base analysis where many it’s an additional cost. A Diesel is very similar to aircraft in that you don’t change oil based on the oil breaking down you change it to get the junk out, Diesel is often soot but sometimes fuel, aircraft it’s often lead, but do any of the oil analysis companies tell you how much lead is in the oil? I’d be curious to see if LOP reduces it.

I’m not necessarily a big fan of oil analysis as a tool for determining engine condition which is what it’s being marketed as, but it IS the best too in existence for determining the condition of the oil for determining oil change interval etc. 

It is after all called oil not engine analysis.

The reason I’m not necessarily a fan of analysis is because for example your sample has elevated bearing metal, what is your course of action?

What it usually is is excessive worry, but I’ve never seen an engine torn down based on analysis, but I’ve seen a great many from metal in the filter.

It’s the filter in my opinion that’s the bird in the coal mine, not analysis.

[AJ88V]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

It is after all called oil not engine analysis.

The reason I’m not necessarily a fan of analysis is because for example your sample has elevated bearing metal, what is your course of action?

What it usually is is excessive worry, but I’ve never seen an engine torn down based on analysis, but I’ve seen a great many from metal in the filter.

It’s the filter in my opinion that’s the bird in the coal mine, not analysis.

I may have read a similar opinion from Mike Busch.