Last mile(s) transportation - OneWheel

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, FlyingDude said:

You willfully ignored the ballast at the empennage hinge, 406mhz elts, and 1 or 2 Garmin gfc500 servos with brackets that can be installed way further after of there. If the floor of the hatrack were stronger and/or loads were secured,  you could add at least another 10 lb there. So though we don't have access to mooney design data for an inconfutable proof, your assertion of CG limitations is clearly incorrect. Reread new gfc servos, elts, ballast aft of luggage. 

I'm sorry gentle readers, I lied...I must respond to this!

NO, I'm not ignoring any properly installed and PERMANENT weight & balance items.

The issue is VARIABLE weights and where they are located.  For example: I'm sure you could put more than 120 pounds in the baggage area IF you had NO weight in the back seats.  But, that is not allowed.

I will agree that the 10 pound weight limit might well be related to the strength of the shelf!  Stick with that argument!

[FlyingDude]

Uhm, what is it? Variable weights? Cg? Insufficient hatrack floor? I wasn't asking you to settle on an option.  Especially after I disproved the one reason you have been defending all this time (cg). Reread the ballast, gfc servos, 406 elt. I think the ballast was 40lb at the empennage. Pretty big moment.

It's very simple. The plane can handle more weights aft of that station. So it's not a CG issue.  The hatrack is suitable for ejecting its content, that's why they prescribed soft items and limited their weight. Given the low weight, they saved on the hatrack floor to make it lightweight because it should not carry heavy stuff. 

 

[EricJ]

The next time you stick your head in the avionics hatch in the tail, just look up.    The floor of the hat rack is pretty much completely unsupported, so it's just the stretch of aluminum skin and carpet (and whatever else) across there that is holding up whatever you put there.    If you pull the max g's allowed on the airframe for normal category the max 10lbs on there will weigh 38 lbs, and with a 2x safety margin that's 76 lbs.   Yeah, I think that's a good limit for that. 

I do recall somebody posting a pic of a decent-sized dog riding up there since it's probably the best hiding place in the cabin.

A tube for skis could be supported at one or more the formers and probably take more weight.

It's weird how much you can load in the tail of an airplane.    Various airplanes have STCs that essentially turn the tail into a huge baggage space.   One of the first Mooneys I went to look at when I was searching was at a hangar home at an airpark, and the owner of the place also had a C180 with the STC that adds a door and floor and opens up the whole tail.   He said it had been previously owned by a casket company and they delivered caskets that way.    He was a dentist and participated in a lot of medical mercy flights to Mexico and said they routinely filled it completely full with supplies before flying down.    I asked how they verified that c.g. was okay, and he said the guy he bought it from said that at takeoff to just give it full throttle and push forward, and if the tail comes up you're good to go.   He said he just always flew it that way and never had a problem. 

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I asked how they verified that c.g. was okay, and he said the guy he bought it from said that at takeoff to just give it full throttle and push forward, and if the tail comes up you're good to go.   He said he just always flew it that way and never had a problem. 

@FlyingDude

Well, there you go!  You're right, just go ahead and load up as far aft as you like...as they say in Jamaica, "ya, mon"

[FlyingDude]

15 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

as far aft as you like

It does fly faster! 

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

It does fly faster! 

LOL!

Get to the site of the crash quicker

[FlyingDude]

1 minute ago, MikeOH said:

Get to the site of the crash quicker

Why should there be a problem if the CG is within the range?

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, FlyingDude said:

Why should there be a problem if the CG is within the range?

Follow along here....this latest humorous (?) tangent was based on Eric's post about the C180 with the "ya, mon" approach to who cares about the CG, not flying within the published CG.  As they say, if you have to explain the humor...

[FlyingDude]

5 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

As they say, if you have to explain the humor...

... it means that the humor is not funny. 

Anyway, I wasn't expecting humorous comments from you after all your lawyer style arguments. You caught me off guard. 

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, FlyingDude said:

... it means that the humor is not funny. 

Anyway, I wasn't expecting humorous comments from you after all your lawyer style arguments. You caught me off guard. 

Yes, my bad. As I did assume that after my post with the Jamaica reference you would be aware the thread had gone completely off the rails.

[sdmideas]

Anyone throwing in a set of rollerblades?

Im actively looking into this for my m20c….my last mile is actually 7 miles…

I won’t be bringing along any rollerblades but I am interested in the robo-skateboard and folding/tiny bike options. Anyone able to fit a standard road bike in? Wheels off?

I keep my hat in the barrack, I suppose I’ll need to keep a helmet of some sort in there too. I might wear a helmet after this post;)

[MikeOH]

I've managed to cram the frame of my road bike in the back seat with the wheels in the baggage area. Had to take out the seat post.  Never going to get two in there!

Hence, we went with Montague folding bikes which still need to go in the back seats and wheels in the baggage area but it's workable.  My wife and I can't stand to ride the clown bikes, but I understand they'll fit in the baggage area which is a big plus.

[N201MKTurbo]

I can easily get my road bike in the plane. The wheels go into the baggage, the frame goes in the front door. You need to completely degrease it first. 

[Will.iam]

So interesting on the CG issue, i flew cessna caravans for awhile and since i was new i was doing the load calculations after loading cargo to verify my CG was within limits before i t/o. The sort facility was complaining to my chief pilot i was taking too long to leave compared to other pilots. When the chief called me i said how are the other pilots verifying their calculations for proper cg range before t/o? That’s when they showed me the technique of pushing down on the tail until the tail stand touched the ground and then let go. If the tail stand stayed touching the ground cg out of aft range if tail came back up cg was within aft limits. After verifying the load manually in both instances it was proof it worked and was super fast to verify. Unfortunately we do not have a tail stand to test this so manual cg calculations it is but i ran the numbers for getting an out of limits aft cg and its stupid extreme like load 2 adults in the back with no one in front passenger seat and 120 max cargo. I’m just not ever going to load my plane that way. 

[EricJ]

20 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

So interesting on the CG issue, i flew cessna caravans for awhile and since i was new i was doing the load calculations after loading cargo to verify my CG was within limits before i t/o. The sort facility was complaining to my chief pilot i was taking too long to leave compared to other pilots. When the chief called me i said how are the other pilots verifying their calculations for proper cg range before t/o? That’s when they showed me the technique of pushing down on the tail until the tail stand touched the ground and then let go. If the tail stand stayed touching the ground cg out of aft range if tail came back up cg was within aft limits. After verifying the load manually in both instances it was proof it worked and was super fast to verify. Unfortunately we do not have a tail stand to test this so manual cg calculations it is but i ran the numbers for getting an out of limits aft cg and its stupid extreme like load 2 adults in the back with no one in front passenger seat and 120 max cargo. I’m just not ever going to load my plane that way. 

Likewise the bit with lifting the tail on a taildragger during takeoff roll.   If the elevator is able to lift the tail well before flight speed during the takeoff roll, it can control the tail at any flight speed.   It's a pretty simple way to check.   Without another way to check, like your tailstand method, a nosedragger needs a little more care.

A buddy is flying Caravans for sightseeing charters and other stuff these days.   I'll have to ask him if he knows about that trick for checking cg.   I know the last thing they do after passengers are loaded and they get on is take the tail stand off, so maybe they give it a tug just before they remove it.   

[Will.iam]

13 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Likewise the bit with lifting the tail on a taildragger during takeoff roll.   If the elevator is able to lift the tail well before flight speed during the takeoff roll, it can control the tail at any flight speed.   It's a pretty simple way to check.   Without another way to check, like your tailstand method, a nosedragger needs a little more care.

A buddy is flying Caravans for sightseeing charters and other stuff these days.   I'll have to ask him if he knows about that trick for checking cg.   I know the last thing they do after passengers are loaded and they get on is take the tail stand off, so maybe they give it a tug just before they remove it.   

Thing is the tail stand is about 2 inches from the ground you can pull the tail down 1 inch and it may pass but pull it down the full 2inches and it can stay there. Something about that extra 1 inch makes a difference. 

[natdm]

On 9/30/2024 at 5:17 PM, Will.iam said:

I have 2 one wheels as lomg as u don’t push the higher speeds they are safe. Problem is to go faster requires more forward tilt and at speeds of 18 + your front edge only has an inch or so of clearance from the ground and any bump rock or divit and that leading edge grabs the ground and instantly stops with you still going forward at your last known speed. There is a mod to put a wheel bar at each edge so that if you touch the ground the wheel will roll and keep the front edge from digging in and suddenly stopping i would highly recommend that mod, just one save would pay for itself in saved injuries. There is also range anxiety in that when you run out of juice that one wheel is heavy to tote walking back to a plug to charge. I have had my eye on the jupiter x5 folding electric bike it’s biggest advantage is if you run out of electricity you can pedal it just like a normal bike so not as big a problem as carrying the one wheel. 
https://www.jupiterbike.com/discovery

 

We have two X5s and they’re too big for our 231. Even fitting one is just too big and bulky. Definitely not going through the baggage door.  

[Igor_U]

18 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I can easily get my road bike in the plane. ...... You need to completely degrease it first. 

THIS! 

I still have traces of grease on my aft headrest from transporting my road bike to San Juan Islands...

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

THIS! 

I still have traces of grease on my aft headrest from transporting my road bike to San Juan Islands...

JMO, but I'd never put a bike in the back seats unless it was in a bike bag. No way I want to work at cleaning the bike that much, not to mention you need some grease on the moving bits!  Plus, there are somewhat sharp parts that can scratch/damage the interior which the bike bag goes a long way to prevent.

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

JMO, but I'd never put a bike in the back seats unless it was in a bike bag. No way I want to work at cleaning the bike that much, not to mention you need some grease on the moving bits!  Plus, there are somewhat sharp parts that can scratch/damage the interior which the bike bag goes a long way to prevent.

Completely hose it down with brake parts cleaner, remove the chain and wash it in solvent, then lube the chain with a paraffin lube, work it in, hang it up to dry, then wipe it clean with a rag. Use the same chain lube on the derailleur wheels. degrease all the sprockets. Then wash the bike with soap and water. dry it with a clean cloth and check that the cloth stays clean.

Face it, your bike needs a good cleaning anyway.

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Completely hose it down with brake parts cleaner, remove the chain and wash it in solvent, then lube the chain with a paraffin lube, work it in, hang it up to dry, then wipe it clean with a rag. Use the same chain lube on the derailleur wheels. degrease all the sprockets. Then wash the bike with soap and water. dry it with a clean cloth and check that the cloth stays clean.

Face it, your bike needs a good cleaning anyway.

Before and after every ride? It will need cleaning before you take it somewhere; go riding; then clean again before going home. No thank you. 

Yes, bike bags are not inexpensive, but I've read here that a grill cover often works well at a fraction of the price.

[MikeOH]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Completely hose it down with brake parts cleaner, remove the chain and wash it in solvent, then lube the chain with a paraffin lube, work it in, hang it up to dry, then wipe it clean with a rag. Use the same chain lube on the derailleur wheels. degrease all the sprockets. Then wash the bike with soap and water. dry it with a clean cloth and check that the cloth stays clean.

Face it, your bike needs a good cleaning anyway.

LOL!

That is exactly the work I was referring to NOT wanting to do

Plus, cleaning doesn’t solve the mechanical damage risk; the bag does.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Before and after every ride? It will need cleaning before you take it somewhere; go riding; then clean again before going home. No thank you. 

Yes, bike bags are not inexpensive, but I've read here that a grill cover often works well at a fraction of the price.

If you use the paraffin lube, it will stay clean. You just have to do it before your trip.

[MikeOH]

@Hank

The BBQ cover is a brilliant solution!

[N201MKTurbo]

The one wheel is easier.