Avblend or Camguard?

[201er]

I'd like to know what's the difference between the two and pros/cons? My mechanic puts in Avblend and doesn't stock Camguard, says Avblend is better. I don't know if it makes a difference or just two names for the same thing. Ready, set, fight!

[KSMooniac]

One is snake oil, and the other was developed by a lubrication engineer and approved by the FAA, and backed up with test data and study from Aviation Consumer.  Look at the ingredients for each.  I use Camguard.

[PTK]

I'm not a fan of additives. A proper high quality oil with frequent changes is what I do. I change oil q ~30 hours and use Aeroshell 15w50 year round. I'm in NJ. One can of additive costs approx. the same as 3.5 qts. of my Aeroshell!

[KSMooniac]

Camguard addresses the problem (especially with Lycomings) of in-frequent flying, which *is* a problem no matter what kind of oil one chooses.  The additives in Aeroshell (and all other oils) do not do what Camguard does, so unless you fly every few days it is a very wise choice to add Camguard to your oil.  There is a reason that flight school planes typically run to TBO and beyond while many of our owner-flown planes do not.  1 bottle of Camguard works for 2 oil changes in an IO-360.

[jetdriven]

Scott, we use it too.  For the 25$ it costs, we add 10 OZ to the oil change (5%), and then add ~3 oz per two quarts of make up oil.  This keeps it at 5% concentration as it burns off oil. 5 make up quarts per change is ~7 oz. 

 

So, actually, what I amtrying to say in 300 words or less, is it takes a bottle per oil change.  As you make up oil you replenish the camguard.

 

Cost and economics, well if you have a 1200 SMOH engine, you will change the oil 16-18 times if used regularly.  Thats ~500$ for camguard over not using it.   Now, the engine time is worth ~12$ an hour. Every hour past TBO is 12$ not put on a new engine.  So, if you can make the engine last just 41 hours longer, then the camguard has paid for itself.   If it lasts 200 hours longer than one which eats its cam prematurely, then you just saved yourself 1,908$ in engine time.  The 200 hours you put on your old engine instead of that new one.  Lycoming engines might need a cylinder here or there, but case cracks and camshafts is what sends them to the overhaul shop.

I am a believer.   Busch wrote a column where he put one engine on his T310R on Camguard and the other not.  his oil analysis results after a couple weeks of not flying shows a constant trend of wear metals, while the non-camguard engine has a spike from corrosion.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I currently don't use anything, but have considered using Camguard.  My plane rarely goes a week without flying twice or more, especially this time of year.

Now that I'm out of my huge stockpile of Aeroshell, I'm switching to Phillips, which I just purchased a large stock at a good price at SnF.

At the end of the day, the Camguard helps, but flying frequently is the best idea.  The current owner of my old Cessna 172 is flying through about 2600 SMOH just fine.  Me and my buddy were flying it 80-100 hours per month when I owned it. (4 years, 2400+ tach hours, 3100+ hobbs hours, on that engine, IIRC. 6000 TTAF Hobbs and it was only on the 2nd engine.

[M016576]

Quote: KSMooniac

One is snake oil, and the other was developed by a lubrication engineer and approved by the FAA, and backed up with test data and study from Aviation Consumer.  Look at the ingredients for each.  I use Camguard.

[Seth]

I have not used camguard yet but plan to.  I used Aeroshell 15w50 in my previous aircraft and now that I have a newly overhauled engine in the Missile, I plan to use Phillips XC 20w50 and after 100 hours will add camguard (once the risk of causing blow-by with additives is removed).

I was happy with using the Aeroshell 15w50 but have decided that the camguard additive will be used in the future.  Also, cost wise, Phillips XC 20w50 is less than Aeroshell 15w50, so that makes up for some of the cost of the expensive but important camguard additive.

-Seth

[DaV8or]

I use Camguard. I am not fortunate enough to be able to fly my plane more than an average of once a week, sometimes less. I need something to help me sleep at night, so Camguard it is. I have never heard of Avblend, but Camguard is discused everywhere on the internet and most defend/swear by it. The FAA says it won't hurt anything, so what the hay? A good nights sleep. Money well spent IMO.

[jetdriven]

AvBlend is sold as an anti-wear additive.  They claim it "soaks into the metal" and eliminates wear.  I'm not sure how that happens. It is also marketed under the name ZMax and sold for automobiles.  They also had to settle a 1 million dollar lawsuit for deceptive advertising.  There is also no peer reviewed study, journal publication, or actual verified test of their claims.  I do think American Flyers tested it in their fleet and it lessened sticking exhaust valves "80%", but this is not published anywhere but AvBlend's website.  Perhaps its just tinted lightweight oil.  So is Marvel Mystery oil, but its 5$ a quart, not 50$

 

Now Aviation Consumer did a test where they dipped bare metal coupons into various oils and aditive mixes. Camguard does delay the onset of surface rust.

 

 

I think parker has it, the best anti-corrosion additive is regular doses of 100 LL gasoline.

http://www.zmax.com/micro_lubricant/aviation/

http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000139666.cfm

http://worldsbestoil.com/amsoil/synthetic/articles/additives.htm

 

[danb35]

Quote: M016576

And from what I understand, av blend is very similar to camguard.

[Shadrach]

Quote: M016576

Both are FAA approved. I think they are the only two pure additives that are... And from what I understand, av blend is very similar to camguard.

FAA approved just means it will do no harm, it has nothing to do efficacy... The owners of the company were sued by the Federal Trade Commission for the claims they made with "Z-max" product.

Check the MSDS: www.zmax.com/documents/msds_105_avblend.pdf

>99% mineral oil. The other <1% is likely the dye that they put in the stuff...

Edit... Dan beat me to it.

[Dale]

I use camguard.  After my engine was overhauled the mechanics recommended camguard after my engine was broken in.  I also read the aviation consumer study and tests and was convinced it would be beneficial for my engine.  I like to fly a couple of times a week but this doesn't always happen and my plane has to sit for a week or two.  I feel the camguard gives me the corrosion protection I need when I am not flying a lot.

[M016576]

Quote: danb35

Your understanding in this area is incorrect and/or incomplete.  AvBlend consists solely of thin mineral oil, dye, and perfume.  This can be confirmed by looking at the MSDS for the product.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: 201er

I'd like to know what's the difference between the two and pros/cons? My mechanic puts in Avblend and doesn't stock Camguard, says Avblend is better. I don't know if it makes a difference or just two names for the same thing. Ready, set, fight!

[David Mazer]

I truly hope Camgaurd works since that is what I am using!

[201er]

Does anyone at all have anything good to say about AvBlend? My mechanic has just been sticking it in without asking me. Later when I asked him about it he said it was pretty much the same thing as Camguard but better. Is there any good reason to keep using it? I see the arguments for Camguard, just want to check one last time if there is any reason not to switch.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

I would be using camguard as I did in my 201;however, it's still not approved for use with tubocharged engines for some reason?

[PTK]

Quote: 201er

Does anyone at all have anything good to say about AvBlend? My mechanic has just been sticking it in without asking me. Later when I asked him about it he said it was pretty much the same thing as Camguard but better. Is there any good reason to keep using it? I see the arguments for Camguard, just want to check one last time if there is any reason not to switch.

[Jeff_S]

Jerry Manthey, of the MAPA Maintenance Clinic fame, swears by AvBlend and he got me started using it. In fairness, I think he started using AvBlend before CamGuard even came into existence, so I don't know if he's ever thought about them in a head-to-head comparison. But I use AvBlend and I can tell you that once I started using it, my oil consumption dropped a bit...it was never high, but I would typically add oil about every 15 hours, whereas now my oil drops from 7 quarts at the change to around 6 quarts and stays there for 25 hours or so.  Of course, it could be that my fairly new cylinders have gotten well-seated at just this same time, so I won't claim pure cause-and-effect, but I like the results so I'm sticking with it.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: 201-FLYER

I would be using camguard as I did in my 201;however, it's still not approved for use with tubocharged engines for some reason?

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

 Camguard can be used with turbocharged engines.  Per Camguard at SnF.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: 201-FLYER

Not according to their website.  Last I spoke with them they were going thru an approval process which hadn't been complete. I know people are obviously using it with turbocharged engines and I would not think it would be a problem but one has to wonder why the seperate approval process for NA vs. Turbo engines if it's not a "big deal"?

[KSMooniac]

Ed Kollin (Camguard inventor) is on the AOPA Forum sometimes and Parker's explanation is what I remember him posting about the turbo question within the last couple of years.  He said there is no scientific reason NOT to use it in turbo engines, but dealing with the FAA is what it is.

Blind trust in mechanics is not always a good thing!  Do your homework and get educated... sometimes you'll find mechanics passing along old wives tales with no basis in reality, or just tribal knowledge "because we've always done it this way."  

[Shadrach]

Quote: 201er

Does anyone at all have anything good to say about AvBlend? My mechanic has just been sticking it in without asking me. Later when I asked him about it he said it was pretty much the same thing as Camguard but better. Is there any good reason to keep using it? I see the arguments for Camguard, just want to check one last time if there is any reason not to switch.

There are a lot of professionals that swear by things based on anecdotal "evidence," that does not prove efficacy. Pick your poison... To me the MSDS says it all. >99% mineral oil. There is nothing in it that is going to do anything for your engine, conversely, there is nothing in it that is going to harm your engine. I suppose it's better than wadding up a $20 and stuffing it down the dipstick tube.

I believe that camgaurd offers some real protection against corrosion, and a test done by AvConsumer seems to indicate that as well. I have not used it yet, but my bird rarely goes more than 10days without flying, usually quite a bit less. I may pony up at my next oil change. I would never put Avblend in my engine because I see no reason why adding a small amount of low viscosity mineral oil and dye would be helpful.

As for Jerry Manthey, I think he's OK, but I find him to be about as forword thinking as the rest of the MAPA crew, which is to say that he strikes me as a guy that feels he's already learned everything he needs to know. Read some of his recommendations on engine operations...